Nurses Eating Nursing Students

[Cisabel]

It was our first day stepping foot on the floor.

We were lost.

We were scared.

We've all been there. If you haven't yet, you will. Some of us were sweating. Some of us were shaking. Some of us were quiet. The one thing that we did have in common is that we were all scared. Here we are, stepping on a floor, full of patients that we needed to take care of but we knew NOTHING. "Go find your nurse" is what our instructor told us. Slowly, we strolled to the different pods and introduced ourselves.

As I approached the nurse that I was to shadow the entire day, I became increasingly relaxed. She was an older nurse that looked mothering and I believed that I was going to learn a lot that day. "Ms. Martha? Hi. I'm Charlotte. I'll be your student nurse today" I widened my eyes and mustered the best smile possible, considering it is 6:30am. I was greeted with a blank stare, followed with an up and down glance that could make a dead man's veins run cold. She finally said, "Hmmmm. I already have a student nurse that is in her last semester. I need to focus on her and help her graduate. Where's your clinical instructor? Can you just be with her? If you have questions, you can ask. I just need to focus on my other student."

Let's fast forward this day. My patient went to dialysis, meaning I will not have anything to do for 4-6 hours of my 10 hour day. Because my patient was gone, I volunteered my services for her other patients. I volunteered to empty foley bags, change bedsheets or whatever other tasks or errands that needed to be done. I asked questions. After the attempts of basically begging her to let me help her were denied, I even asked if I could just watch her and shadow her without even being acknowledged. (Mind you this was my first day. I know I sounded like a sad puppy but I had no idea of what else to do). Unsurprisingly, she shot those requests down as well. This is only a small insight to how my first day went.

This is living proof that the advice that some nurses give about why nurses eat their young and all of things to do to avoid it is all FALSE!! "Make yourself available". Did that. "Ask questions and act interested". Did that. "Make sure to not come off as a know it all". Did that. "Sometimes, nurses are very busy and teaching a student will disrupt them blah blah blah!"

If you are a nurse and do not want a nursing student, JUST SAY IT! It is very unfortunate that there are some nurses out there that do not want to teach. The cornerstone of nursing is teaching. You must teach the family and patient constantly during their visit. Also, "each one, teach one" should be taken to heart. Think about when you first became a nurse. You were frightened and scared.

Fellow nursing comrades, if this has happened to you or if this ever happens to in the future, take it with stride. It is difficult to work with and hard to not take it personally. Just remember that day and vow to never EVER treat someone that is willing to learn and help with disgrace.

[Jules A, MSN]

That's right! Remember, everyone is there to please you. If anyone doesn't show you the proper respect, make sure to start a paper trail and take it all the way up the chain of command if necessary. These people are all waiting to hear from you. The bonus? When you apply anywhere for a job, they'll already know your name.

The rest of us can't feel your pain. That's because all our instructors and preceptors were happy to see us and pave our way. None of us ever had to deal with a poor instructor or a harried preceptor. If any one of them had looked at us sideways (or up and down) we'd have let them have it. And so should you.

Darn shame this got moved and won't be viewed by all. :)

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

I think you showed great initiative to try and do small tasks to help that nurse out. Bottom line, if you have a staff member who is giving you hell, go to your instructor first. If that won't help, go to the charge nurse. If that won't work, go to the dean of your program. Write down the facts, keep emotions out of it. Paper trails stand up in court if necessary! Your clinical experience should be a positive one that helps you learn. I feel like you, that senior nurses sometimes forget what it was like when they were starting out. I'm a new grad myself but as a phlebotomist (eleven years experience) I took students with me all the time. I loved having students and giving them the benefit of my experience. I wasn't paid extra for this and I didn't care. I did it because I like to teach. Some of them were afraid but I always greets them with a warm smile and enthusiasm. Some people are great teachers and some just, well, they suck!

Hope your schooling gets better! Don't give up! Hang in there! You can do it!!

Yeah, that would go well. Whose job is it to teach? I'll give you a hint, it's not the nurses on the floor. It was not the nurse's job to make sure the student had something to do. If the CI couldn't find something for her student to do, that's a problem. But to keep getting in the way of the nurse who *already* had a student on top of her busy patient assignment is just rude. It's not like the nurse had nothing to do & just wanted to be left alone. Handling one student is hard, two..ridiculous! But by all means, start a paper trail. I'd love to see where that would take the OP. I bet it wouldn't be anywhere good! Also, how do we know the nurse "sucked" as a teacher? She already had one student. So obviously she didn't reject the notion of helping a student.

As I preface this I want to say I'm not bashing phlebotomists. Ok, with that said, the job of a phlebotomist is not as stressful as that of a nurse. When I have gone to the ER there have been several instances where they have a student with them. They walk in, joking & having fun. I don't see any stress on their faces. Whereas the nurses have a patient load (which keeps increasing) & have to wear multiple hats. We have to be maids, waitresses, nurses, etc. When I have gone to the hospital & I told phlebs, x ray techs or any of those about an issue they would just defer it to the nurse. Sometimes I understand because they can't do it. But other times they just didn't want to. Anyone interacting with the patient should help as they can.

You are a new nurse so you haven't had to take any students yet. As the years go on you will see how difficult it is to get everything done & one day you will have a student with you. I bet you won't be thinking the same thing.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

(QUOTE from kellyaburton):

In my freshman year, we had a teacher that loved to yell at her students in front of other staff and other patients. Not only that, she was a horrible classroom teacher! The students who had her went to the dean with numerous complaints. She even went so far as to assign one student who dared stand up to her the WORST patients every single week. The final nail in her coffin was that staff nurses from a hospital that my school has had a contract with since the program began started calling the school to complain about this woman. Needless to say, that woman is no longer teaching!

Excuse me, kellyaburton, what exactly is the "WORST patient"? I am really flabbergasted and confused by this. Especially because you say that "every week" she gave this horrible patient to any student who dared stand up to her? The most acute, challenging patient with the most diagnoses, meds, treatments, etc? When I was a student, these were the patients I always wanted because there is so much to learn. I am really confused by your attitude to the OPs post and her refusal to accept any responsibility for her own education and behavior.

But I really really want to know what the "WORST patient every week" means??

I am curious too. How could any patient be the "worst" patient? From an "easy" patient to a "complicated" one, there is always something to learn. That is why you are in school. Even experienced nurses don't know/haven't seen it all.

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I give all my students my "worst" patients. It's good for them. And me

[Jules A, MSN]

I give all my students my "worst" patients. It's good for them. And me

Because they are doing all your work for you for free, right? lol

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

if i am reading this all correctly, i believe what this "new grad" is trying to tell students is to 1). not take it personally if something like this ever happens to you and 2). don't worry and move on you will survive. Nursing school is hard. It tests not only your book knowledge and skills but your character. But this is what you signed up for. RIGHT? While i understand the multitude of posts from others pointing out how this one individual does seem to be a bit focused on herself and playing a bit of the victim, AND it is legitimate to help ALL future nurses understand that as a licensed nurse you will have to protect yourself, your time but more importantly your patients, but geez, let's give her a break. She's just trying to share some of her experiences so that the next student who encounters this type of scenario will not panic knowing she is not the first to go through this. FAIR?

I have to disagree with the way you are reading this. The OP is a new grad who had a negative experience with a senior nurse two years ago, and is still holding a grudge. She has repeatedly demonstrated via her posts that she has no concern for anyone in her scenario except for herself -- not for the nurse, the senior student the nurse was already precepting, the patients . . . .

I read it as the "new grad" complaining about being "victimized" a couple of years ago and telling students that no matter what they do, some old hag is going to be mean to them, too.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

That's right! Remember, everyone is there to please you. If anyone doesn't show you the proper respect, make sure to start a paper trail and take it all the way up the chain of command if necessary. These people are all waiting to hear from you. The bonus? When you apply anywhere for a job, they'll already know your name.

The rest of us can't feel your pain. That's because all our instructors and preceptors were happy to see us and pave our way. None of us ever had to deal with a poor instructor or a harried preceptor. If any one of them had looked at us sideways (or up and down) we'd have let them have it. And so should you.

Should have had a beverage alert!

[Skippingtowork]

Without explaining details, I'll just say that I was treated well by several nurses when I was a student, but somewhat shockingly badly by a couple of others. And like you, I've vowed to treat students and new nurses with nothing but a friendly, helpful attitude. So far I haven't had any students, but have helped new nurses with whatever they need or ask about.

Thank you for this comment. I've been reading comment after comment and wondering if something was wrong with me. After nursing school, I vowed that I would treat nursing students and any other student with respect and show them how valuable they will be when they become staff somewhere. It was my mission to do the best I could with them as I felt that their experience, performance and knowledge obtained were in part a reflection of my own performance that day. Teaching is an expectation of a professional, not an option, and definitely not a bother. Yes, you may not feel like doing it everyday, nor should you be expected to you. I do think each nurse should seek out the opportunity to be a preceptor whenever possible. You learn by teaching and nursing students can also teach about the newest research and protocols that they are learning about. In my setting, we compete to take students.

Let's not miss the point of why Cisabel was so angry. She was being deprived of a good clinical experience through no fault of her own. Two professionals made a mistake. Her instructor, who should have checked with the nurse or charge nurse before making an assignment and the nurse who was not polite about not being able to take another student.

If a nurse is busy with an assignment and cannot explain in details, this would be an excellent time to have the student just accompany and be an extra set of hands. The student can just listen and observe and then go to the desk and research what what was discussed. Lots of learning can still be experienced. And yes, many people do not want students, but the majority do not mind. I always set the stage first before bringing in a student. The student can always step out for very private matters if patient desires. Patients know that student today is their nurse tomorrow, and better learn now than fumble later.

As nurses, we don't work for ourselves and precepting is part of our responsibility. When doctors have students tagging around them, they are not getting paid either. When PT and OT students look for clinical assignments there is no compensation. Let's be kind to our future colleagues. I always like to say "the student today might very well be your boss in 5 years. I've seen it happen."

[Skippingtowork]

I haven't experienced nurses eating their young. I've experienced nurses who don't get any extra for having a student (that can sometimes just get in the way).

I've had nurses who have 6 tough patients and barely have time to look at you much less get their assignments done before lunch.

I take care of my patient, report as necessary, make sure they know I'm available to help as long as I have the time, and seek out others on the floor to make sure they know the same thing.

Have there been times where I've had downtime? Yes. I used that time to look up unfamiliar medications, see if my fellow students needed any help check call lights. Help restock linen carts.

Your clinical instructor should provide as best of an atmosphere for you to learn as possible, but these are people we are caring for & working with, not robots.

Make the best of it no matter what. There's always something to learn.

One of my favorite days was when my clinical instructor sternly informed us "someone from my other group was nasty to a PCT. Unacceptable. Half of you will act like PCT's today, and then rotate."

I loved that day. I got to really practice making occupied beds, get through a ton of vitals, glucose checks, run specimens to the lab, and navigate perineal care/changing diapers on immobile patients. I learned ALOT of tricks. I bow down to the PCT's humbly.

Believe it or not, in some hospitals, PCT's are not allowed to check blood sugars or vital signs. I have noticed that many nurses do not know how to take a proper blood pressure and trouble shoot abnormal results, so taking vitals signs is part of a nursing student's training. I am a stickler for proper bed-making at work and at home. Although many tasks can be delegated, the supervising nurse should be an expert. No task should be determined to be mundane. Instead, they are all essential. There is too much skipping of important knowledge.

[OrganizedChaos, LVN]

Thank you for this comment. I've been reading comment after comment and wondering if something was wrong with me. After nursing school, I vowed that I would treat nursing students and any other student with respect and show them how valuable they will be when they become staff somewhere. It was my mission to do the best I could with them as I felt that their experience, performance and knowledge obtained were in part a reflection of my own performance that day. Teaching is an expectation of a professional, not an option, and definitely not a bother. Yes, you may not feel like doing it everyday, nor should you be expected to you. I do think each nurse should seek out the opportunity to be a preceptor whenever possible. You learn by teaching and nursing students can also teach about the newest research and protocols that they are learning about. In my setting, we compete to take students.

Let's not miss the point of why Cisabel was so angry. She was being deprived of a good clinical experience through no fault of her own. Two professionals made a mistake. Her instructor, who should have checked with the nurse or charge nurse before making an assignment and the nurse who was not polite about not being able to take another student.

If a nurse is busy with an assignment and cannot explain in details, this would be an excellent time to have the student just accompany and be an extra set of hands. The student can just listen and observe and then go to the desk and research what what was discussed. Lots of learning can still be experienced. And yes, many people do not want students, but the majority do not mind. I always set the stage first before bringing in a student. The student can always step out for very private matters if patient desires. Patients know that student today is their nurse tomorrow, and better learn now than fumble later.

As nurses, we don't work for ourselves and precepting is part of our responsibility. When doctors have students tagging around them, they are not getting paid either. When PT and OT students look for clinical assignments there is no compensation. Let's be kind to our future colleagues. I always like to say "the student today might very well be your boss in 5 years. I've seen it happen."

It was not the floor nurse's fault in any way, shape or form. The students are guests at the hospital. The student is not paying the hospital to learn. If her CI didn't help the student get experience that day, it is the CI's fault. The floor nurse already had a student. Having one student on top of a full patient load is hard, I couldn't imagine having 2. We don't know how high the nurses' patient load was or how critical they were. If the nurse had a lot of treatments or other things to do & having one person who can't do much can get in the way, 2 can really cramp things.

There should be zero blame on the floor nurse. The OP made the whole ordeal about her & made everyone out to be the villain. Also, just because we become nurses doesn't mean we want to be teachers. Some people don't like it & others are just bad at it. If we wanted to teach we would become instructors.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

Let's not miss the point of why Cisabel was so angry. She was being deprived of a good clinical experience through no fault of her own. Two professionals made a mistake. Her instructor, who should have checked with the nurse or charge nurse before making an assignment and the nurse who was not polite about not being able to take another student.

If it had been about a good clinical experience, Cisabel (who is presumably an adult) would have gone to her clinical instructor immediately after the nurse told her she was unable to take two students at once to ask to be reassigned. The clinical instructor made a mistake. It should not have been upon the nurse who already had one student to then arrange for reassignment of the second. We have only Cisobel's word for the nurse being impolite and frankly, Cisobel does not seem to be an unbiased reporter.

[Skippingtowork]

If it had been about a good clinical experience, Cisabel (who is presumably an adult) would have gone to her clinical instructor immediately after the nurse told her she was unable to take two students at once to ask to be reassigned. The clinical instructor made a mistake. It should not have been upon the nurse who already had one student to then arrange for reassignment of the second. We have only Cisobel's word for the nurse being impolite and frankly, Cisobel does not seem to be an unbiased reporter.

Sorry, but I insist that the floor nurse had the responsibility to be polite. It is not that hard. I have been a nursing student and a floor nurse. I have precepted many times. I know it is not easy, but I am not impolite. Also, lots of comments about teaching as not being the nurse's responsibility. No one is asking you to do it full-time, but precepting is part of your responsibility. How else does a person get through clinicals. A CI cannot take responsibility for multiple patients at the same time. The patients are not assigned to her. If she has several students on the floor and more on a different floor, how does that work? Unfortunately, all my training was in teaching institutions, so nurses could not and would not utter words about not precepting. In addition, if you have a BSN, you know that being a professional requires that you teach what you know. Plus, if there is a clinical ladder at your hospital, it is one of the requirements in some form or the other.

The student is indeed a guest in the hospital, but you do you think hospitals do this out of the kindness of their hearts. Not for one second. I would suggest a discussion with the CNO about why students are accepted if they are nothing but a burden.