A Matter of Respect and Dignity: Bullying in the Nursing Profession

TheCommuter, BSN, RN · Apr 23, 2011

With all due respect, that quote was in reference to a film, and the study was done using children. Elementary school to be exact.

I still think that the quote is relevant. Even though the study was done on schoolyard bullies, I suspect that many adult bullies are trapped in earlier developmental stages and have never progressed emotionally or otherwise.

pedicurn, LPN, RN · Apr 23, 2011

I love this, but let's go further. Why, I absolutely hate, psycho- babble. Those same "whiners" have been taught all through the late 80's and 90's, this is how you handle it. We are taught in college, emotional leadership 101, to begin all conflict resolution with, "I feel" or any "i" statement. We are taught, what we feel is king and we are NOT, to abdicate that feeling, at any cost. We must, make others responsible for making us feel this way and they must acknowledge our feelings whether true or not, because they are our feelings. Feelings being entirely subjective, are never wrong..
So to answer your question, yes they are engineers, judges, journalist and psychiatrist. But, my question to you is, how do you separate them and how do you know she, who has never seen bullying or been a victim, discern the truth from fiction? If you think about it, to say you never witnessed bullying is far fetched. Credibility is lost quickly, with a statement like that. It is like the folks that never saw racism or sexism. Really? But to the point, isn't it better to err on the side of caution when it comes to a serious issue as bullying, than dismiss those reaching out, as immature whiners? Are you not, contributing to their pain and not only that, could even be the last straw, that they end their life? Just something to think about.... I do not see bogey men around every corner and I surely don't cry wolf. I have the thickest skin of anyone I know, but even in my toughness, I can see pain and surprisingly, discern the wounds of others. I would never dismiss a cry for help as "chicken little" for I am not God and can't see in peoples hearts. I would rather be put out some and be found I was wrong, than do nothing and let someone suffer. Peace!

Good post.

Well it wasn't me (that was another poster) who said they have never witnessed bullying - I most definitely have seen a lot of it. I've also been bullied a fair bit.

Why have I been bullied a lot? A couple of reasons I can come up with :

1. I am a very well mannered person - so the bullies know they can push it and I'm not going to be as rude as them back

2. I have moved around a lot with husbands work therefore am often the new person - and we all know how bullies like to torment new people. No sooner we get settled he's transferred again. We move on average every two years.

3. I am different to a lot of them - different outlook,broader perception than the bullies. There is a certain type of nurse that likes to pull people like me down

Regarding differentiating the whiners from the bullied ... a good manger should know how to listen carefully, weigh up the situation and spot the problem. I don't think this should be difficult. Ofcourse the whiners need to heard each time but shouldn't a good manager be looking for patterns? or clues that Susie might have another issue? Susie may have deeper problems or maybe has a lack of social skills? realistic expectations regarding working with a large diverse group of people? not much emotional intelligence? Or Susie might just be plain dumb and immature

I remember earlier HR policy and harrassment writing stating that 'bullying is anything that doesn't make you feel good'.

Really how childish !!!

We are supposed to be a group of professionals not 5 yr olds.

I can't imagine other professionals behaving as 5 yr old screaming injustice because someone made 'me feel bad' ... I think our doctors/lawyers/engineers are going to kinda know there's something wrong with Susie's behaviour.

There is something very wrong with our coworkers when they don't 'get' the difference

I think we can blame the situation on 3 factors:

- Heavy influence in nursing culture from the PC brigade ( those ones who infuse our theory with their own socio-political framework)

- A lack of nurse leaders with real generic professional skill and a bunch of floor nurses with no backbone who will not stand up to bullies

- And unfortunately a bunch of coworkers with issues ... from assistants to RNs :mad:

Chin up · Apr 23, 2011

Good post.
Well it wasn't me (that was another poster) who said they have never witnessed bullying - I most definitely have seen a lot of it. I've also been bullied a fair bit.
Why have I been bullied a lot? A couple of reasons I can come up with :
1. I am a very well mannered person - so the bullies know they can push it and I'm not going to be as rude as them back
2. I have moved around a lot with husbands work therefore am often the new person - and we all know how bullies like to torment new people. No sooner we get settled he's transferred again. We move on average every two years.
3. I am different to a lot of them - different outlook,broader perception than the bullies. There is a certain type of nurse that likes to pull people like me down
Regarding differentiating the whiners from the bullied ... a good manger should know how to listen carefully, weigh up the situation and spot the problem. I don't think this should be difficult. Ofcourse the whiners need to heard each time but shouldn't a good manager be looking for patterns? or clues that Susie might have another issue? Susie may have deeper problems or maybe has a lack of social skills? realistic expectations regarding working with a large diverse group of people? not much emotional intelligence? Or Susie might just be plain dumb and immature
I remember earlier HR policy and harrassment writing stating that 'bullying is anything that doesn't make you feel good'.
Really how childish !!!
We are supposed to be a group of professionals not 5 yr olds.
I can't imagine other professionals behaving as 5 yr old screaming injustice because someone made 'me feel bad' ... I think our doctors/lawyers/engineers are going to kinda know there's something wrong with Susie's behaviour.
There is something very wrong with our coworkers when they don't 'get' the difference
I think we can blame the situation on 3 factors:
- Heavy influence in nursing culture from the PC brigade ( those ones who infuse our theory with their own socio-political framework)
- A lack of nurse leaders with real generic professional skill and a bunch of floor nurses with no backbone who will not stand up to bullies
- And unfortunately a bunch of coworkers with issues ... from assistants to RNs

Thanks for a great adult conversation! I think this is a great post and we really are not far from one another. See what clarification will do? Thanks for sharing your story. It must be hard not having a permanent support. What the bully doesn't realize is, you are a very strong and mature person.

I agree with everything you wrote, ESP on the PC brigade, as you call it. Lol. It really has caused havoc in our lives. It gives people permission to be victims and proud of it. Yes, we need real leadership and yes, it is lacking. (I hate to keep saying, years ago, but that is my only reference). Years ago, we did have strong leadership, that could discern and refused to coddle those, "attention seeking victims". A lot of us were new to working outside the home and we had to prove, we could do it. We had a brave front and wouldn't think of acting weak, never mind being proud of it. I am ashamed of what some are putting out there today. Our women leaders, would turn over in their grave.

Anyway, thanks for your wonderful response! Much respect! Peace!

Aeterna, BSN, RN · Apr 23, 2011

I'm unsure where to put this but I wanted some feedback on it and figured this thread was appropriate enough.

I don't think I'm being bullied or being treated like a doormat, but if I am, my co-workers are doing it in a subtle way.

On day shifts, our usual patient load is 4, and on nights, it's 6. For a while now, the vast majority of times I've been getting 5 on days and 7 on nights - always having the extra patient. Every shift, at least one or two of us have to take on the extra patient and for the most part, I don't argue when I get them because we all have to get them at some point.

But the last few assignments I've had, I've had the extra patient...as in, I can't remember the last time I came onto a new assignment and did not have an extra patient (if I had to guess, probably about a month ago!). Today, I again had 5 patients on a day shift and, since I was familiar with some of the patients due to having them on nights, I knew they were heavy (i.e. confused, physically heavy men, restless, calling a lot, total care, a packing dressing to be done) and report from night shift on another patient said he wasn't doing well, needed a Foley, etc.

I spoke up for myself and asked if it was possible to have only 4 patients. Charge nurse complied, but then one nurse basically told me that I should have just sucked it up and taken the assignment (she said it in a politer way, but that's pretty much what I heard). I told her that I was simply tired of always getting an extra patient on my assignment, as it has been for a while now, and I knew that the assignment I had was going to be heavy.

I genuinely felt bad that I was lightening my patient load at the cost of someone else, but at the same time, was it too much just to ask for a small break every now and then? Whenever I get a heavy assignment and am running my a** off the entire shift, people tell me to stand my ground and ask for a change to my assignment. However, when I do, I tend to hear complaints about it and I am made to feel guilty, as if I'm not pulling my weight or that "this is the real world of nursing so learn to deal with it".

anotherone, BSN, RN · Apr 23, 2011

I'm unsure where to put this but I wanted some feedback on it and figured this thread was appropriate enough.
I don't think I'm being bullied or being treated like a doormat, but if I am, my co-workers are doing it in a subtle way.
On day shifts, our usual patient load is 4, and on nights, it's 6. For a while now, the vast majority of times I've been getting 5 on days and 7 on nights - always having the extra patient. Every shift, at least one or two of us have to take on the extra patient and for the most part, I don't argue when I get them because we all have to get them at some point.
But the last few assignments I've had, I've had the extra patient...as in, I can't remember the last time I came onto a new assignment and did not have an extra patient (if I had to guess, probably about a month ago!). Today, I again had 5 patients on a day shift and, since I was familiar with some of the patients due to having them on nights, I knew they were heavy (i.e. confused, physically heavy men, restless, calling a lot, total care, a packing dressing to be done) and report from night shift on another patient said he wasn't doing well, needed a Foley, etc.
I spoke up for myself and asked if it was possible to have only 4 patients. Charge nurse complied, but then one nurse basically told me that I should have just sucked it up and taken the assignment (she said it in a politer way, but that's pretty much what I heard). I told her that I was simply tired of always getting an extra patient on my assignment, as it has been for a while now, and I knew that the assignment I had was going to be heavy.
I genuinely felt bad that I was lightening my patient load at the cost of someone else, but at the same time, was it too much just to ask for a small break every now and then? Whenever I get a heavy assignment and am running my a** off the entire shift, people tell me to stand my ground and ask for a change to my assignment. However, when I do, I tend to hear complaints about it and I am made to feel guilty, as if I'm not pulling my weight or that "this is the real world of nursing so learn to deal with it".

same antics where i work. and the "deal with it" comments are easy for the ones with 4 walkie-talkies with no meds or dressing changes to make

Chin up · Apr 24, 2011

I'm unsure where to put this but I wanted some feedback on it and figured this thread was appropriate enough.
I don't think I'm being bullied or being treated like a doormat, but if I am, my co-workers are doing it in a subtle way.
On day shifts, our usual patient load is 4, and on nights, it's 6. For a while now, the vast majority of times I've been getting 5 on days and 7 on nights - always having the extra patient. Every shift, at least one or two of us have to take on the extra patient and for the most part, I don't argue when I get them because we all have to get them at some point.
But the last few assignments I've had, I've had the extra patient...as in, I can't remember the last time I came onto a new assignment and did not have an extra patient (if I had to guess, probably about a month ago!). Today, I again had 5 patients on a day shift and, since I was familiar with some of the patients due to having them on nights, I knew they were heavy (i.e. confused, physically heavy men, restless, calling a lot, total care, a packing dressing to be done) and report from night shift on another patient said he wasn't doing well, needed a Foley, etc.
I spoke up for myself and asked if it was possible to have only 4 patients. Charge nurse complied, but then one nurse basically told me that I should have just sucked it up and taken the assignment (she said it in a politer way, but that's pretty much what I heard). I told her that I was simply tired of always getting an extra patient on my assignment, as it has been for a while now, and I knew that the assignment I had was going to be heavy.
I genuinely felt bad that I was lightening my patient load at the cost of someone else, but at the same time, was it too much just to ask for a small break every now and then? Whenever I get a heavy assignment and am running my a** off the entire shift, people tell me to stand my ground and ask for a change to my assignment. However, when I do, I tend to hear complaints about it and I am made to feel guilty, as if I'm not pulling my weight or that "this is the real world of nursing so learn to deal with it".

Hi Aeterna,

Unless there are other signs, I would not call this abuse, but getting away with, what they can. Which is human nature. In this case, I would call you a willing target. You believing you are doing one for the team, are actually abusing yourself. People pleasing is what it is called. I know, I used to be the biggest pleaser, then one day, woke up and never again. (well still sometimes:). Anyway, you know you are a people pleaser when you can't say no, but then feel irritated about it. You willing volunteer for things, then remorse sets in and then anger. You try and tell yourself you are doing the right thing, so you wont let it bother you, but it does. It eats away at you like a cancer. Then you start beating yourself up for feeling this way. It is a cycle and you must break it. Even when you finally spoke up, it bothered you. You started wondering what people thought and now are looking for permission or validation from others, telling you it was okay to ask for fair assignment. This is unhealthy behavior and prevalent in nursing. Women tend to believe if not putting others first, then they failed. I guess the answer to your question is yes, you are being abused, but not from your coworkers. You are abusing yourself. Please reflect on this and stop. Get help if you need too. Until you treat yourself, like you treat others, this will keep happening to you. Good luck. Peace!

bstullis · Feb 20, 2012

I am living this situation now. I am a relatively new RN,

One of the biggest problems is that the unit manager and this particular ANM are extremely buddy/buddy, my direct ANM supervisor informed the unit manager that she felt like I was being targeted and was "blown off". Others opinions (as expressed by other ANM/RN/NAC/support staff) of this particular ANM show she is not well liked outside her realm of influience (day shift). Even the majority of the other ANMs can't understand why she gets away with so much or has much more influence then they have.

I don't have the experience but have all the evidence and the backing of both night ANMs that work directly with me nightly, week in, and week out. maybe I just need to suck it up and confront this directly with a visit to HR with a union rep, and the people I work with directly (all of whom feel I have been targeted unfairly)

P.S. this particular ANM has already gotten another ANM "released" from the facility. but that is mostly rumor. . . . mostly.