Had my first doctor scream at me today - page 7
I am a new grad. This is my last week on orientation.. Well today was horrible! Nothing went right! I was crazy busy.. I couldn't find any of my charts because they tend to "float around." Meaning... Read More
Apr 21, '07[QUOTE=
I think it sucks that so many doctors think it's okay to treat nurses that way. If a nurse treated a doctor like that, I'm sure the judgment and punishment would be swift and decisive. Not so for doctors, and I'm not quite sure why.[/QUOTE]
I think I will be finding out how this situation is handled at the hospital where I am doing my clinical. We had a situation where my patient started to loose large amounts of blood very suddenly, with a BP drop of 40 points in less than 5 min. The Dr was called, and our pt was moved to the OR for emergency surgury. After the procedure the pt became tachicardic and the Dr ordered a move to ICU rather than back to our med surg floor. As this was my pt and I am a student nurse in my senior rotation, my preceptor followed along with me and my pt every step of the way. This was due to my pt insistance that I needed to be by her side as she feared that if I left her side she would die. She felt that by holding my hand she was holding on to life - which was OK for me because I have not yet lost a pt and did not want to start with one I was so attached to. She had been in my care with the same preceptor care for 2 weeks, and we had become close.
OK - so we enter the ICU with our pt - and the ICU nurse said - what are you expecting me to do with this pt - my workload is to high and she can't have my last bed. She looked at me and said - and where is her NURSE. (My preceptor was standing right beside me at the time with her ID tag clearly visible). Then she questions my preceptors judgement as to why this pt needs to be there in ICU - as well as the Dr judgement. The Dr was called, and when he arrived, the ICU nurse started yelling at Him. He did not yell back although she was quite abusive and was swearing at him profoundly. He remained the gentleman that he always is and never raised his voice or returned the choice launguage. I am waiting to see if this is going to result in a diciplinary action against the ICU nurse by the Dr and what will become of the issue. I am staying out of this as I am not a hospital employee - just a "worthless student nurse" - according to the ICU nurse around who this issue revolves.
Apr 21, '07The doctors bring the money to the hospital, the nurses don't. I directly blame doctors for lack of nurses at the bed side, and second I blame nurses for putting up with the abuse. I also directly blame nurses for lack of nurses at the bedside, because nurses do not stick up for each other, but they do treat each other with disrespect. Who in their right mind would study hard to become a professional to help others, and allow themselves to be treated in this manner?
Apr 21, '07Quote from suebee rn-bsnthat is utter nonsense! pts bring the money to the hospital, not doctors.the doctors bring the money to the hospital, the nurses don't.
also, pts are in the hospital for nursing care, they can be seen by their docs anywhere, but they can only receive nursing care in the hospital (except for home health, i know...)
stop putting others on a pedestal and they might not think they are superior.
Apr 21, '07Hi Ken,
U know Sue-Bee was just repeating the line nurses have been fed for years. We are a cost to a facility, the physician makes the facility money by admitting patients. I have heard this argument in one form or another for over 25 years. We, as nurses, do not agree, but there has not been much change in this position. Love your tag line. Have a great day.
Apr 21, '07Quote from gitterbughi gitterbug,hi ken,
u know sue-bee was just repeating the line nurses have been fed for years. we are a cost to a facility, the physician makes the facility money by admitting patients. i have heard this argument in one form or another for over 25 years. we, as nurses, do not agree, but there has not been much change in this position. love your tag line. have a great day.
i don't know where this notion came from (probably docs) but just because docs aren't on the payroll and nurses are, doesn't change the overall picutre of profits for a business. the only reason i jumped on this one is it sets up the idea we're in the way of profits for the health care system and that's crazy.
no business can earn a profit without expenses--none. no hospital can earn a profit without nurses--none!! why do docs, hospital administrators and, sadly, some nurses think since the nursing part of the income statement lands on "expenses", we're in the way of profits? someone needs to take a business 101 course. i suspect docs and admins think nurses don't know basic business economics and it appears some do not.
i also agree with sue-bee's comment we're the ones putting up with these ideas and we need to stick together.
p.s. as for the tag line, it's as much a reminder to myself as it is a statement.
Apr 21, '07Kudos to you! Sounds like you handled everything really well. HE should be the one who was embaressed. You were calm and professional while he was screaming and making an absolute idiot of himself in front of everyone (and trust me that's what all the bystanders were thinking).
Isn't the power of remaining professional wonderful?
Apr 21, '07Quote from TweetyI've gotten pretty lucky too, I've never been screamed at. Talked to in a condescending manner that makes you feel like dirt, yes. Screamed at, no. I've heard some great stories from other nurses I work with about certain doctors at our hospital...I guess I've just been lucky so far!
Fortunately, as I said above, I've never heard a doctor scream.
Apr 21, '07Quote from RNOTODAYI don't think the big issue is that "The Doctor" yelled at "the Nurse", I think that the problem is anyone yelling/screaming/throwing a fit when dealing with some one on a professional basis. The only person I scream at now is my husband...and I do try to keep that to a minimum I don't care who screams at me at work, I'm going to get upset, whether its a doctor, another nurse, patient, whoever. I can never imagine screaming at someone I consider a coworker, no matter how upset I get with them, I just can't imagine throwing a fit at work, and I have a horrible, easy to trigger temper. I don't know why so many doctors seem to not be able to control themselves.I really really wish that there wasnt this "thing" about nurses being upset at being yelled at by the "doctor" , like they are some supreme being, or something. 'oh, the DOCTOR yelled at me, ..." Who cares? They dont employ you, YOU do things for THEM, not vice versa. It just seems to me that when new grads and even experienced nurses get all nervous about paging the DOCTOR or being upset that the DOCTOR yelled at them is just a sign of a personal, or even worse , professional inferiority complex. I am in no way singling anybody out when I say this here. It just makes me cringe when I hear this... toughen up. You're a professional. They are just people, no better than you are. I myself had never had a problem confronting, paging , or being "yelled" at by an md, as a student, as a new grad, or as a semi- experienced nurse. I find that odd, because in many areas, I am not so much of a confident person, and I actually *do* have an inferiority complex in RE: to many areas of my life. But, the whole doc-nurse thing never had me nervous or upset. (My friends tease me to this day, and say that this attitude I have is because I actually dated a doctor before I went to nursing school, so therefore I see them as regular people, as they truely are!!!)They may be right, but still, they are NO BETTER than us!!!!! Be strong!!!
May 6, '07I'm not confrontational, so don't get me wrong with what I'm about to tell you to do. First and foremost, never let them see you sweat. Whenever you get the opportunity to get that doctor alone, take it. You don't have to sink to his level of lack of professionalism, but you do have to speak up for yourself. Tell this doctor in no uncertain terms yelling at you is never to be acceptable. It defines your role as a strong nurse. It emphasizes you will not be disrespected. If you had any protion of error, own up to it, it shows you will not run from your accountability. If his rude behavior continues, I don't know about your institution, but in mine doctors can be written up the same as ancillary staff. I have a doctor who is high strung and volatile if the wind blows strong. I had to meet him in his office one day after the end of my shift and told him " when I come to work I am a grown married mother of two, when I work I give 200%, and I will never tolerate being screamed at or hung up by phone" that was 6 years ago, he has had to apologize to me for raising his voice just once since then and that was recent in the past week. Good luck.
May 6, '07My heart goes out to you. I will soon be a new grad and will soon be faced with dealing with a cranky doctor. It is good to know that I have you and many others who have shown tact and professionalism when dealing with such an incident. I am sorry you had to go through that but keep your wits and head about yourself. We are all a team, it is unfortunate that docs sometimes forget that and fly off the handle.Last edit by Purple25 on May 6, '07 : Reason: forgot a word
May 6, '07Bullies are able to intimidate because they are not used to having someone stand up for themselves. Think of your typical playground bully. These types of bullying MD's are those kids +40 years.
May 6, '07i am so sorry that happened to you. i actually had a surgeon stop me from putting an iv into a patient who was stable. he didn't come up to me and say it, but went up to the other er nurse and told her she should do it because i was a student and students should not be messing around with critical patients. i was so mad, because i was a 4h year nursing student and i had started so many ivs. so the next day at the end of my shift i was getting out of the elevator and he was getting in so i stopped; got back in and talked to him and told him that i was going to be a rn in about a couple of weeks time and like it or not that i would be starting ivs on his patients in er and where ever. he said he was sorry and that he had no idea that i was in my fourth year. this was my first time ever approaching a doctor and telling him that it was not right for him to do that (and i am a very shy person). but in my hospital we have very young doctors and the new doctors coming out of med school are more nicer and understand and thank the nurses for what they do on a daily basis. its the more older ones (not all) that have the old school mean attitude.
May 6, '07right after school i started working for a doc that had gone through 4 nurses in the last 3 years. i was hired to replace the last nurse which wasn't there a whole year. everything went fine the first 3 weeks. the first day i went up to him to get info on how he liked stuff done. then the 4th week we had to send out a diabetic with ketoacidosis in an ambulance. i finally got to see the other side of him! he didn't scream but everytime we send someone out from the clinic he acts like it is the biggest emergency...like our pt is gonna die if we don't do things like speedy gonzalez. i mean i understand sometimes we have to act quick, but he really freaks out. so he was just pushing me through everything i did that day. the more he pressured me, the more i messed up. i even spilled antibiotic on the floor when i pulled back on the syringe plunger too much. then he was like never mind the ambulance is almost leaving. i don't remember everything that he did, but i do remember he made me feel like an imcompetent sorry loser. sooo what did i do....i confronted him at the end of the day. told him how he was too pushy, that i was a new nurse and he was gonna have to deal with the fact that i was not as fast, that i was not gonna take shortcuts to do things faster for him, that i was gonna do things the way i was taught, and that if he had a problem with the above, he needed to get another nurse. and i told him that if he would work with me, i would work with him. he apologized a million times. i told him that if in the future he has a problem with something i do, to come to me and settle it instead of going to complain to another staff member. like i said he was so sorry. he continued apologizing for 2 weeks and even offered to help me with charts everyday after we were done seeing pts. i have worked for him for almost a year. i think he just needed someone to be honest with him. he is the best person to work for...and easy. another nurse that works there said we act like a married couple because of how well we know each other. and i have gotten really good at my job. we work so well together. no problem since then.