"LPNs should be done away with altogether"

kcochrane · Feb 17, 2009

This is only in my experience, but I've yet to work with a LPN in a hospital setting at my last place of employment in Reno or now up in WA state. With few exceptions, I've only heard of them working in nursing homes. It seems to me like hospitals have done away with them, in my experience.

It really depends on the area. All the hospitals in the Rochester area utilize them - some have started using them in ER. As you get further outside the metro area you get even more LPNs being utilized. Some years are better than others for LPNs for being hired in local hospitals. Right now it isn't too bad, but if the economy hits here as bad as other areas, you may find that changing.

That being said, I do remember someone mentioning that LPNs are used as CNAs in their area - can't remember where that was.

SnarfGirl · Feb 17, 2009

I do home health as LPN and it pays very well. Need to have at least a six month -year in some sort of LTC or acute care setting...if you can wait that out it's so worth it. And the schedule is flexible. I graduate in May with my RN, and I'll probably stay in home health :) Good luck -

Foreverplaid1 · Feb 17, 2009

I had almost the exact same experience, the nurse said to me "WHAT DEGREE ARE GOING FOR ?" i SAID LVN, AND SHE PAUSED AND SAID, "WELL, WHAT IS YOUR MARKETABILITY ?" i LOOKED AT HER AND SAID, WELL, I AM GOING TO BE WORKING WITTH LTC @ THE SKILLED NURSING HOME WHERE I HAVE BEEN A CNA FOR QUITE SOME TIME AND HOPE TO GO ON TO A RN TO BSN PROGRAM. " SHE SAID," OH, GOOD THAT IS VERY WISE B/C THEY ARE GOING TO DO AWAY WITH LVN'S SOON ANYWAY." WELL, I KNOW THEY ARE NEVER GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET RID OF LVN'S B/C THEY ARE NECCESSARY IN NURSING, WITHOUT LVN'S A RN'S LOAD IS JUST TOO MUCH AND PATIENT CARE IS GOING TO SUFFER AND WE ALREADY KNOW THE OUTCOME OF THAT-DON'T WE !

LHH1996 · Feb 17, 2009

OMG!!! I can't believe the title of this post! When i started out right after nursing school as an RN..LPNs are who taught me sooooooooooo much..........i never judge nurses by lpn or rn.. I am thankful.

of course i keep in mind the practice law when doing iv's etc...but geez..LPNS are great in my book!!!!!!!

Towanda1 · Feb 18, 2009

Well, I personally sense this at my current job. I've been an LPN for six years and have two semesters left in my transition to RN. At my workplace, I feel as though they think the LPN's are very incompetent. We're always getting these inservices that I think are just senseless, but then again you do have nurses out there with very bad and unsafe practices, but to ask the group would they administer morphine with the needle still in place to give it sublingual? (she was explaining how you can still administer morphine or dilaudid by drawing it up in the vial and give it sublingual) We all were like are you serious? She said "yes." I really didn't appreciate that at all. Maybe if we had been a group of RN's she wouldn't have asked that. And I'm also noticing at work that all the RN staff including the DON keep commending me for being in school and asking me do I see the difference, and how big of a difference it is. Truthfully, I do see the difference. WHY? WHY? WHY? is all I'm hearing. I'm understanding why I do certain things, but don't try to belittle the LPN's in the process. I work with alot of competent LPN's., but I'm also noticing a little bit of haterism from some of my coworkers who are LPN's. Some don't even speak anymore.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 18, 2009

I have never seen such strife and static as when I became an LPN. I made a distinct choice to become an LPN...not because I am a stagnant person with no ambition, but because I know what I can handle on a daily basis. When I weighed the two options, I knew immediately that LPN was the route for me, and I have no regrets or no intent to go further in nursing. What I have seen, however, is that depending on where you work, LPNs are not welcomed or taken advantage of in a severe way, which is discouraging. I have to admit that I have not had too many negative experiences myself, but, my heart bleeds for my LPN counterparts that really care about what they do and are hurt on a daily basis by callous people.

I work in a clinic setting in my hospital. We are a bit more 'autonomous' (if you can use that word for an LPN) than the inpatient ones. I just learned the other week that our LPN union representative quit being a union delegate after years of battling it out with the unfairness that has been bestowed upon LPNs for years. I work per diem occasionally on med-surg and I had not had it so bad, but I haven't been back for a few months. I am hearing now that LPNs are running around administering medications while the RNs are eating breakfast, writing out checks and visiting other floors to gossip. They aren't even picking up STAT orders and they are very confrontational when the LPN has not had a chance to pick them up. When they complained to the nursing administrator, the only response they received was "Go back to school". That is not the answer. Yes, the most determined person will make it through the odds to return to school to obtain the higher license, but this does not change how these particular LPNs perceive their treatment TODAY. In addition, this is a form of bullying, which interferes with the safe continuum of care...disgraceful conduct that should be addressed swiftly. I understand that our 'ex' union rep begged them to take their complaints further, but most of them were afraid, which is understandable in most cases, especially if the powers that be are blowing you off.

What I also see, however, is that many RNs are also mistreated by their administrators, co-workers, subordinates, families and are generally burned out, so, for me, the additional responsibility is not worth the money. If it ever does get to the point where my facility does decide that they can no longer use us, I'd probably opt to return to my position as a tech and evaluate other options, but returning to school is not an option for me...the circumstances are too horrible in my eye no matter how you slice it. Sometimes, I think I had better peace of mind before. I don't have regrets...I like what I do, but, the moment I see that the intent is to get rid of us, I'll look for greener pastures and call it a day.

Foreverplaid1 · Feb 18, 2009

be proud of your profession, the n in your name stands for nurse.
Work hard, learn everyday and hold your head high.
Let people talk smack if they want to... Brush it off.
You worked hard to earn your license and deserve respect just like anyone else.
Critically thinking is making an educated decision based on facts and data. Don't let anyone tell you you don't know how to.

i love the quote @ the bottom of your post and i have said this to all who ask me why i went into nursing many times. Just so nice to see somone with the same sentiment about their career choice.

Happy beach bumming:)

inthesky · Feb 18, 2009

I've been wondering how the push of the DNP will affect LPN, ASN, and BSN. The new ANCC initiative states that DNP will be the standard for nurse practitioners. There was a push in the 90s for BSN to be the standard qualification for RNs which never came to be. I'm not sure what will happen. I work with a lot of psych LPNs.

pagandeva2000, LPN · Feb 18, 2009

As an offshoot to the News article about nursing education, an opinion was brought to the board that LPNs are not adequately prepared to care for patients, and that their education is not strenuous like an RN program is. Having been in the field for awhile, what is your opinion on the differences between LPNs and RNs, other than the legally different aspects (LPNs cannot do initial assessments or IVs in my state for instance)
I'm not looking to start trouble, but rather discuss the topic in an area other than an unrelated thread.
Differences in LPNs vs RNs (educationally, functionally, intellectually)
Best way to combat any possible negatives of the above
Advice for an LPN student (who is too far through her program to just throw it out and start over in an RN program - already applied for an LPN to RN program starting Jan 2010)
Should I really expect to run into attitudes in the workplace about my not being worthwhile as an employee and a care provider because I chose the path that I have? How do you handle it if you do?
There is a local small rural hospital that pays incredibly well for LPNs right out of school and who has been trying very hard to recruit us during clinicals... am I going to be inequipped to care for patients there because of my education? I would never want to get into a situation where patient care was compromised because my education was lacking somehow...
Jennifer
~slightly confused and frustrated LPN student

To answer your question, if this hospital pays well and is willing to take you, go for it. Nothing beats experience, no matter what alphabet soup is after your name. Whether it is an LPN, ASN or BSN, a new grad from all levels is green behind the ears and is afraid. In addition, you master the area you work in regularly. I started in the medical clinic in my hospital in 2006 and knew it like the back of my hand. I asked to be cross trained in different areas and am now in OB/GYN. I thought that I had it all mastered, and this is a new ball of fire for me. I did take a great deal of my past experience with me, so, I am calmer when I see unfamiliar things, but, I had not seen women's health issues since I left school. The difference was that now, I am more patient with myself, ask questions and continue to read when I get home. I am not arrogant, I learn from the other nurses and am becoming a stronger nurse because of this change that I instituted.

There will be times where you know the book like the back of your hand, but when it is time to apply it, you feel like an idiot, are afraid and may hesistate for a moment and this will happen throughout your nursing career.

You'll see physicians that don't know their elbow from the wisp of hair on their heads and they went to school even longer than we did. I have seen many say to me "What do you think??, or HELP ME"...which is scarier. I have seen some nursing assistants work rings around RNs within the scope of their limited practice...have better communication skills, more professionalism and patience. It is the quality of person, not necessarily the title that makes the individual. And, while I mentioned earlier that I have been discouraged and even hurt by the stories I have heard from other LPNs (and what I have read here), but, I also noticed that when I walked with my head high, did not act like a know it all and demonstrated that I am a team player that wants to make a difference, I have seen MANY RNs say that they would rather work with me than some of their own. I remember when I went on vacation for two weeks back in October and the first day I returned, most of the RNs ran to me, hugged me and told me to never take off again in life. Now that I am being cross trained, they have confronted my supervisors and told them that I had better come back. I am not egotistical about this, however, because the tides can change anyday. But, I know that I do make a difference, and that is most important to me. It is best not to balk each time we feel disregarded (at least not openly...you learn to pick your battles), but to work with dignity in order to gain respect.

What I have seen is the difference in PEOPLE...their personalities, their work ethic, their integrity a bit more than how LPNs and RNs differ in scope of practice.

Magsulfate, BSN, RN · Feb 18, 2009

I
Instead of "doing away with" LPNs, I'd like to see ALL nurses have the same initial training - such as at the LPN level. And then those who continue on get more training and more responsibility on the job.

Umm, isn't that how it already is?

flightnurse2b, LPN · Feb 18, 2009

What I have seen is the difference in PEOPLE...their personalities, their work ethic, their integrity a bit more than how LPNs and RNs differ in scope of practice.

this is the absolute truth.

i turned in my notice at work today (i am moving in six weeks)

four physicians have offered me a reference.

my boss got tears in her eyes.

of all the times i thought she frowned that i was "just an LPN"... i always felt like i had to prove myself, just from my own personal negative experiences of hearing that i was not a "real nurse". so that motivated me more to be always learning and always trying to be the best nurse i can.

she actually cried when i told her that i was really leaving. she told me that if she were to be a patient on my floor, staffed with all RN's except for myself and 1 other LPN, she would request me as her nurse. i was truly touched.

we as a nursing profession are the ones who have caused the divide within our own family. because i've said it before.... people who are that sick, they don't care if you are an LPN, RN, PhD or what.... they remember that you were a good nurse and that you took the time to really care.

travel50 · Feb 18, 2009

Well, this is a touchy subject for me. I am the director of nursing at a nursing home, and we employee primarily LPNs. Most of mine are amazing, and I would match them to many RNs that I have known. I have never been an LPN. I was an aide, then got my ADN, then a BSN, and am now working on a MSN. The classes I am now taking are all online. Recently this discussion came up and I nearly got "thrown out" of class b/c of my opinion. On the discussion board posting, I asked the question, "If we do away with the LPNs, then who is going to do the work???????" Now, obviously, I know that RNs work exceptionally hard, but it is different work than the LPNs do. RNs are not going to want to do the get-down-dirty work that my LPNs do. They don't want to spend half their shift passing pills. No one could answer my question. They just lambasted me for "lowering the standards of the nursing profession", etc. My LPNs don't lower anything. I was offended for them.

So, I say all you LPNs be proud of your accomplishments and of what you do. I, for one, would not want to be without you.