Are LPN's being phased out? - page 20

by JSlovex2 69,475 Views | 232 Comments

I know people have been saying for years that everyone would need a BSN and LPN's would be a thing of the past, etc. Well, so far, where I work (a large, magnet hospital) there are still many, many nurses without a BSN -but there... Read More


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    The phasing out of the ADN level and leaving just LPN/LVN's and BSN prepared RN's makes the most sense. Your going to need the LPN's for the LTC/Home Health setting it's hard to get round that. So it makes sense to make more distinction between the two levels rather than having different entry levels for RN's

    The biggest barrier I think is the way the schools are structured. Most RN programs in my city are ADN programs at community college. A community college can't simply upgrade their program to a BSN because they usually are not 4 year degree granting schools. Theres going to be a bottle neck. Community colleges picked up when the diploma programs phased out but who will pick up the slack if the community college can no longer make nurses. The State University systems are already impacted and private colleges are not a practical option.
    HazelLPN and nursel56 like this.
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    Quote from Seas
    LPN's may not be totally phased out for long years, you never know. And there are always exceptions.

    But yes, LPN's are being phased out. Everybody should wake up and realize that BSN's MSN's and higher degrees are now mentioned.
    Very true. On the other hand, many new categories of unlicensed assistive personnel are also mentioned. The entire healthcare delivery workforce is in a state of flux. People who study these issues for a living would probably tell you that a snapshot in time is insufficient to provide enough data to make an accurate prediction. We are presently experiencing a recession and unemployment rates in numbers only exceeded by a handful of events in the last 150 years.
    That's what everybody's talking about, hiring managers (especially hospitals) wise I mean. What is LPN compared to this?
    Unlike other commodities and services, nurses or nursing skills positions must be filled with someone. Who that someone is will change with time. If you research the LPN vs RN scopes of practice in a state, you'll find that legally (vs hospital policies) there are not very many things an LPN can't do. They are not going to leave those positions unfilled while they wait for enough BSN and Master's Degree nurses to apply for the job as a staff nurse providing bedside care.

    What would make LPN a better candidate for hiring?
    Not enough RNs in the applicant pool? That will happen again. Lower rate of pay? Perhaps but the corollary to an oversupply of something (in this case new grads) is stagnation/depression of wages -- anyone who thinks corporations won't act on that out of the goodness of their hearts is living in la-la land. Other factors would be things like experience in the desired area, personality, exceptional written and oral communication skills, and something you can't really define in words. "A good fit" for a particular unit.

    LPNs/LVNs normally work in rehabs, SNFs, ALFs, and LTC facilities and as PDNs in home health. In the longer term, the rapidly aging "Baby Boomer" generation should create quite a demand for facilities/services like that. Hence, more employment for LPNs, although the same qualifier with respect to the UAP jobs would apply in this case, too -- the wage difference would be less. I'm sure they will hire RNs too if they can afford it, but I get the impression that most new grads prefer to work elsewhere. It's safe to say there will be an exodus of people leaving when the more attractive (in their eyes) jobs open up.

    It is not even a degree. I am not saying this to belittle anybody; I am not saying this is good, or this is bad, I mean that's just the truth.
    Prior to the early 70s, every nurse working "didn't even have a degree". One of my favorite subjects is nursing history. You would be amazed at what people were able to accomplish through committment to lifelong learning, sheer initiative, a sharp mind, courage, persistence, and many other laudable qualities. True, they didn't even have a degree. They taught the first wave of BSN faculty how to be a nurse, which is much more than a degree.

    If you have a degree and set it up on your shelf to look pretty (not saying you would do this) it will become less and less meaningful. I prefer to think of nursing as a process of education that never ends. There are as many ways to advance as there are unique personalities in nursing. You only need to study Jean Watson to understand that concept. I hope nursing education goes in the direction of letting people start to specialize and have something akin to a residency so hospitals don't have to do it themselves, further tightening the new grad job market.
    LongislandLPN and HazelLPN like this.
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    Quote from HazelLPN
    Why would a hospital hire an LPN (or diploma educated RN for that matter) even though they do not have have a degree?
    Simple. They might be excellent nurses and the best fit for that position. The degree does not make you a better nurse than an LPN or a diploma prepared RN.
    Lets not go by exceptions. Yes, no matter what the title is, there are good and bad ones out there. If we look at it in your way, then LPN's shouldn't complain about MA's replacing them ( I saw many topics here about that, that's why I am saying this). There may be just awesome MA's that are better fit for the position for the employers if you ask why they hire MA's instead of them...
    I don't want to go into personal level and say, a better LPN, worse RN, etc, that's why... I am talking about higher education, not a good or a bad nurse.
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    Quote from Seas
    Lets not go by exceptions. Yes, no matter what the title is, there are good and bad ones out there. If we look at it in your way, then LPN's shouldn't complain about MA's replacing them ( I saw many topics here about that, that's why I am saying this). There may be just awesome MA's that are better fit for the position for the employers if you ask why they hire MA's instead of them...
    I don't want to go into personal level and say, a better LPN, worse RN, etc, that's why... I am talking about higher education, not a good or a bad nurse.
    I tried to explain to you why an LPN could get hired over an RN based on her/his experience. If you wish to discuss MAs do it where its applicable, its not applicable here. I'm taking about bedside nursing in an acute care setting. MAs do not work in that environment, they work in ambulatory settings. They certainly don't work in critical care nursing, yet there are still veteran LPNs who work in critical care. My example was from my own background in critical care nursing. A young RN with little experience would in no way be hired for a position in the PICU where I worked, even with a BSN, over an LPN with many years of critical care experience. That's not an exception in states where LPNs have a broad scope of practice.


    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    Fiona59 likes this.
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    Quote from HazelLPN
    I tried to explain to you why an LPN could get hired over an RN based on her/his experience. If you wish to discuss MAs do it where its applicable, its not applicable here. I'm taking about bedside nursing in an acute care setting. MAs do not work in that environment, they work in ambulatory settings. They certainly don't work in critical care nursing, yet there are still veteran LPNs who work in critical care. My example was from my own background in critical care nursing. A young RN with little experience would in no way be hired for a position in the PICU where I worked, even with a BSN, over an LPN with many years of critical care experience. That's not an exception in states where LPNs have a broad scope of practice.


    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
    In the area I live, none of the hospitals hire LPN's no matter how many decades of experience they may have. No way a hospital would hire them for any type of critical setting. RN with experience or not is hired for critical care settings.
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    Quote from Seas
    In the area I live, none of the hospitals hire LPN's no matter how many decades of experience they may have. No way a hospital would hire them for any type of critical setting. RN with experience or not is hired for critical care settings.
    That's nice but you need to learn that not all states have the same scope of practice for LPNs. There are states that the scope is very similar to that of an RN and some that are more restrictive. The only thing I couldn't do was do the admission assessment (so I didn't take new admissions), train to be an ECMO tech and run the pump, be charge nurse, serve a patient's primary nurse, or give IV chemo products or anesthetics. Otherwise, I did it all. These are the states where experienced LPNs would be hired over RNs who lack the experience. Do you now understand why an LPN could be hired over an RN like you originally asked? MAs have nothing to do with it, neither does your state or area because they are not all the same. Got it?

    Best to you,
    Mrs H.
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    I live on Cape Cod in MA. I spoke with my old nursing instructor recently and she told me a lot of the new LPN's are unable to obtain jobs because the hospitals on the cape are only hiring BSN so all the Associte degree nurses are working in LTC. I am working for a visiting nurse company who had 1 LPN when I started and they never had her case manage or manage complex patients. When I started working per diem they started realizing how valuable LPN's are and are now paying for my RN and have hired more LPN's. You can always make a place for your self if you put yourself out there and show people your skills, so don't get discouraged.
    Futrern likes this.
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    I have been an lpn for 25 years now, and they have been saying that since i got my license. I can honestly tell you i make more than many rn's. In my area i can't see them phasing out lpns. There just isn't enough rn's to accomplish the patient load. In my area its us lpns who have to clean up after the rn's. Lpns have been drilled on procedures while the rn's have been drilled on paperwork. Hope this helps.
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    I don't think so. LPN's still have a role in healthcare. In my work they are basically equal to RN's, it even shows in their pay its only a one dollar difference. Though their union contract guarantees a pay raise while the RN's are non-union which is strange.

    The only things they cannot do is sign off on an initial assessment, hang blood (can't even do that in our place), and start IV's (need the certification like the RN's do).
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    sad to say but the 2 large hospital groups in central Florida no longer let LPN's work on floors doing patient care. I know last LPN's
    that were left were let go this year most with over 25yr experience each.


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