LPN versus CMA

Nurses LPN/LVN

Published

I was thinking at first of going for my Medical Assistant degree, since I want to work in a clinic so badly. I heard so much about how LPN's are getting phased out and only CMA's are getting jobs at clinics, and CMA's are higher up than LPN's. This of course coming from recruters from CMA programs. It would seem that the only difference between CMA's and LPN's are the fact that Med Asst's. get training in lab and x-ray. Well, I already am a certified Phlebotomist, and so I have that going. Any of you guys and gals work alongside Med Assts? Anyone work in clinics? :balloons:

I am a new LPN- BUT i kind am wishing I went for MA just because there are so many more jobs right now in my area for them. Im gonna start off by saying I have not gone through MA school but I do know alot of people who currently are and there were a handful of MA's in my LPN program. From what they say- yes MA's are just as important as the LPN's and the RN's- just as important as the CNA's. We all do our part in the medical world. No one is better than anyone- its just a preference of the person whois going to school and what works for them. But I believe there is a difference between LPNS and MA's. LPN's are nurses, with licenses and a whole different scope of practice. MA's work under someoen elses license- which is fine. Schooling is completely different- LPN's are not trained with the reception side of things- but we are trained with more indepth knowledge of the disease and the n ursing process- MA's can do things LPN's can not do unless we get certification. Theres a give and take between the two- but they are totally two different careers. Whatever path you choose is your decision and what works for you doesnt mean itll work for soemone else. Congrats to all of those LPN's an MA's that have made it through and are helping patients!Because thats whats most important!

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.
First, I did not read all 24 pages of this thread, so I apollogize if someone has already made these points, but it certainly won't hurt to repeat them again.

I used to instruct a course called Clinical Procedures for Medical Assistants at a Junior College in Nebraska. Though I was initially hired to teach a Computer Hardware & Maintenance course, when the Dean discovered I had a BSN she also recruited me for the CMA course, and here is a part of what I came away with from the experience.

The CMA curriculums (as well as PA curriculums) have been designed by the Medical Profession with a very specific ideology in order to foster 2 very specific purposes - to increase productivity and increase fiscal profits. These purposes are not necessarily connected for just the sake of profit, but increased productivity generally results in increased profits, as does a lower cost for labor - but not always, since a laborer with a more robust education can often save the day.

There are never enough physicians and there are always too many patients. So, if physicians are going to be able to provide their services in a way that meets the demands for those services within a given community, they must find ways to see more patients in less time. Hence, the CMA is cross-trained to provide procedural labor in the back and front of the medical office. Nurses, on the other hand, are trained for procedural labor that is suitable for the back office, but the training is often overkill and costs more to employ. But there is still another issue with employing a nurse in the back office - they are trained to provide nursing care labor ahead of procedural labor. Not only can this be overkill in the office setting, it can be quite inefficient in the office setting. It takes additional time to "care" for a patient in the manner that nurses are trained, and it's nearly impossible to get a nurse to NOT provide nursing care - even when its not needed. Nurses are also prone to second-guess physicians when assuming the educationally-ingrained role of patient advocate - which is also inefficient in the office setting - though sometimes necessary. Fimally, nurses are taught to educate patients in wholistic self-care, which is where they shine in the medical office.

This is not meant to imply that CMAs, PAs and MDs don't "care" about their patients or teach them to care for themselves, nor is it meant to imply that nursing care has no value in a medical office, which is why most offices employ all 3. Neither should their be a heirarchy among these disciplines, except between the MD and an individual discipline. Each have a scope of practice that meets specific needs, but none of these 3 disciplines are actually requred to assist a physician. All the physician must have in an office assistant is someone with the intelligence learn what needs to be done.

The reason nurses can demand more money is because they can function autonomously as caregivers and are lisenced to provide procedural labor, within their scope of practice, when not under the direct supervision of a physician. In fact, nurses are known to challenge or even refuse to carry out a physician's order, but they best have good reason if they expect to keep their job and license.

I hope this can clear up some of the misconceptions regarding the value of both CMAs and nurses. I also hope it can aid those who manage both disciplines in the office setting. My wife is a LPN at a Pulmonary Clinic, yet her manager is a CMA, which is legitimate. The only issue is they don't undrstand each other's unique educational and vocational training - which can easily lead to ineffective management, a lack of teamwork, and ultimately, a chaotic and inefficient delivery of medical office services.

I just want to say that I love the way you answered this...it made me understand better! Thanks!

:yeah:

As a recent acceptee in to an accredited CMA (AAMA) program here in Oregon. I have often found myself on these national blogs doing research. The amount of bickering I have found between cma's, ma's and nurses has really made me very nervous about what my professional life will be like after school, and in other parts of the country.

Frequently, I bring up this dissent to my instructors and fellow students, trying to get a feel for the validity of such a division. I do not see a need for the arguement and am a team-orientated person, recognizing (and very excited about) the strides the medical community is taking to become more integrated and functional as a team, for the sake of the patient and efficient care.

With your permission, I would like to print out your response and share it with the Health Professions programs at my school. To me, it offers a very clear "final-say" on the matter of this arguement, and stresses the point that each scope of practice is necessary and vital. Bravo to you for bringing this focus to the discussion.

Hopefully, our fellow Medical Professionals will also be willing to adopt this bottom line, for the sake of the advance of medicine, and patient care.

Thank you.

R

I am a new LPN- BUT i kind am wishing I went for MA just because there are so many more jobs right now in my area for them. Im gonna start off by saying I have not gone through MA school but I do know alot of people who currently are and there were a handful of MA's in my LPN program. From what they say- yes MA's are just as important as the LPN's and the RN's- just as important as the CNA's. We all do our part in the medical world. No one is better than anyone- its just a preference of the person whois going to school and what works for them. But I believe there is a difference between LPNS and MA's. LPN's are nurses, with licenses and a whole different scope of practice. MA's work under someoen elses license- which is fine. Schooling is completely different- LPN's are not trained with the reception side of things- but we are trained with more indepth knowledge of the disease and the n ursing process- MA's can do things LPN's can not do unless we get certification. Theres a give and take between the two- but they are totally two different careers. Whatever path you choose is your decision and what works for you doesnt mean itll work for soemone else. Congrats to all of those LPN's an MA's that have made it through and are helping patients!Because thats whats most important!

Just curious - what can MA's do that LPN's can't? I think you may be mistaken..

mc3

:lol_hitti

my brain hurts so badly after reading this entire thread for the last 2 hours.

Just curious - what can MA's do that LPN's can't? I think you may be mistaken..

mc3

I am also very curious....

Specializes in L & D, Med-Surge, Dialysis.

But MA can't transit to be an RN while LVN/LPN can do.

I don't think many people realize that there is a difference between the CMA and ASMA. I'm in a two year associates degree program for medical assisting. There are many LPN's that do not hold and associates degree. Some people train in technical programs through their high school....(I know several of them) I would not be so hasty to discredit medical assistant's education. Sure it is not that of an RN but it isn't the same as a CNA either.

Specializes in LTC.

NEVER EVER EVER EVER listen to a stupid recruiter for anything! Here in NC CMAs are nowhere near being above a nurse..LPN or RN. Least not in my area and surrounding cities. Its just like those tv commercials....they make it all look so simple and easy and like you're guaranteed a job etc.....then its not ever like that for most people. In the doctors offices Ive been in and out of over the past few years, Ive never even seen a CMA...I have seen receptionists, cnas, nurses, and lab techs/phlebotomists. As a matter of fact, just yesterday I had a cxr.....guess who did it? An RN in a doctors office......and nurses can draw blood as well.....Ive done it quite a few times at my job, but I work in LTC.

I just want to say, Great Read !!

There needs to be State mandates as to what is allowed and not allowed a MA to do.

Most states do not. It is unregulated which is really sad to see.

If you could see where I was just last working you would be shocked !

MA's saying they are Nurses. I made sure they knew not to call me a nurse !

IV's being done by people who have had no clinical training.

Scripts being written (not signed) that was no correct/spelling wrong/no dosage amount. And NOT caught by the MD.

Give Imm to children with out parent signature or explaination of the med. Not telling patients that the H1N1 they were giving their child had Mercury in it-- should have been told as a curtousy period- and the MA didn't even know it anyway !

Using wrong needles for injections. Not changing needles after you drew up the med.

There was no Group effort there. It is all for yourself and it is never my fault, kinda thinking.

I NEVER did anything that I felt was out of my scope. But others would do it would an issue even though they shouldn't have.

Using Speculums that were not sterile ! :uhoh3:

All in all the practice let it all happen because it was a $$$ issue. Now they will never get anyone good because they all leave. Some day someone will make a call and they will either lose their Lic or straighten up. I choose the 1st as they are already losing patients and had to cut hours.

People, if you want to do MA, go to CNA and work at a hospital. You will get WAY better benefits !!!

I sometimes wish that I had not moved out of state and left the nice ER TECH job I had in a Great #1 place to work Massachusetts Hospital :crying2:

p.s. sorry to bring up an old topic but there is GOOD info here.

Link to the MA can do and can't do http://www.medicalassistant.net/can_and_cannot_do.htm

Specializes in CNA, LPN and CMA.
I was thinking at first of going for my Medical Assistant degree, since I want to work in a clinic so badly. I heard so much about how LPN's are getting phased out and only CMA's are getting jobs at clinics, and CMA's are higher up than LPN's. This of course coming from recruters from CMA programs. It would seem that the only difference between CMA's and LPN's are the fact that Med Asst's. get training in lab and x-ray. Well, I already am a certified Phlebotomist, and so I have that going. Any of you guys and gals work alongside Med Assts? Anyone work in clinics? :balloons:

It seems that there are a lot of people who are misinformed about CMAs and tend to mix us up with CNAs and Medical Aides. I am a CMA (Certified Medical Assistant, Certified by the AAMA (American Association of Medical Assistants)) and the program I took was a 2 year Associates in Applied Science program.

I have been up the ladder. I started my career as a CNA (Certified Nursing Assistant) and decided I wanted to go further. I took the entire LPN program but I did not take the boards. The LPN program I took was only 1 year and was a diploma program, not even an associates program. It was extremely hard and stressful and upon completing that program I was unsure if nursing was what I wanted because of the stress and also the only job openings I found were in Nursing Homes. I moved to the twin cities and worked in a group home for 3 years.

I happened upon the CMA program while in the twin cities and I was able to finish the program in 1 year because of my LPN background, but my classmates took 2 years. I really enjoyed the CMA program because of the lower stress level (my teachers were very kind and patient with their students) also I very much enjoy the fact that I have the option to work in lab or Xray or transcribing if I wish. But I work now in a clinic alongside the LPNs and there are no fueds or debates what so ever here about "who's better" because nobody is. We all do the same things and work together as a team as any well functioning clinic should and we are all very happy here. There is NO PAY DIFFERENCE here between LPNs and CMAs.

What I'm really trying to say is that there shoul;d be no fued about who's better. We are all important in the functioning of the facilities we work for and though there may be slight changes in scopes of practice depending upon the facility you work for, nobody is better. What is important is that the patients get the quality care they deserve.

Do the research before you make a decision. It is a very difficult choice to make sometimes. But the most important thing is to research the School you decide to go to and their passing rates because a teacher can make you or break you. I wish I'd known that when I started the LPN program.

Good luck to you in whatever you chose. :0)

Cna's and CMA's both are integral to providing great patient care. They each have a scope of practice and both serve a great purpose. There should be no fued to whos better. Were all here to help those in need. Good luck to whatever career path you choose.

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