magnet therapy

zenman · Aug 30, 2004

So are you denying the validity of double blind studies used by main-line pharmacutical companies and government agencies to determine the effectiveness of medications?

Double blind studies are the best we have right now, I'll agree to that. However, it sounds as if you are putting blind faith in the government and pharmaceutical companies. The people in these organizations are...people, with all the faults that people have. Remember their interests and the money and people they control. I've been in studies...both sides...and remember one that was based on patient info collected by nurses...nurses who were short staffed and cutting corners. There have been many pharmaceutical scandals.

Granted the biologic sciences do not attain the level of rigor that physics and chemistry do, none the less carefully structured experiments can and do yield valid information regarding theorys of treatment. With such information we can predict the effectiveness of treatments based on that theory.

Yes, medicine does limp far behind the advances made in other fields of scientific endeavor, particularly since its knowledge is based on parts and isolated aspects. If a physicist were to attend a medical conference, he would be flabbergasted and probably think that he was thrown back in time!

All persons who consent to be in a study know is that they are in a study. Neither they nor the staff who administer the meds know if they are given an active ingredient or a neutral placebo.

True, and that is what "limits" the study, they know they are in one. We know little about the mind and consciousness. So, think for a moment, if you were a patient with say cardiac disease and consented to be in a study. You are going to hope that you get the "real" thing. That alone will cause changes. You doctor may like you and hope that you are getting the "real" thing. Whether you do or not, his attitude will affect you and your condition. Kinda messes things up doesn't it?

I am amazed that people involved in a profession based on science can actively deny the basic premises of science, that true theorys must result in reliable predictions of future conditions. Unless rigorous testing is done then the truth of the theory can't be shown.

I don't deny the basic premise of science. I just recognize its limitations. How many studies get opposite results...sometimes after years of people taking a drug that was shown to be ok? Now I hear Vioxx has been shown to increase your risk of heart attack X 3.

Magnets are not rare or expensive. It should not be difficult for a simple test of their effectiveness as treatment tools to be conducted.
For example; If the claim is that they improve circulation, then the quality of circulation needs to be measured. Circulation quality can be measured by someting as simple as a skin temperature thermometer, or capillary refill time, or a variety of more complex devises. A large sample of test subjects need to be found, say the freshman class of a Nursing school, and they need to be tested, when exposed to a magnet and when they only think they have been exposed to a magnet, and when they believe they have not been exposed. The test protocol should be repeated with a "sick" population who have known circulatory problems. If there is a positve effect on circulation, that is greater than chance would predict, then the magnet has been shown to be probably effective.

You'd probably never find anyone willing to put money into the project. And again you have the limitations of the scientific process.

I apologize if it seems I am talking down to you but this is simple stuff. It is not rocket science, but it is science!

No problem. But...in it's simplicity it can get complicated.

Hellllllo Nurse, BSN, RN · Aug 30, 2004

If anyone can offer any solid scientific evidence, ie: a double blind study done by an independent agent, please post it. Weezie asked 9 mouths ago and only anacdotal evidence has been offered.

Read the replies. I posted a link in this thread to results from a double-blind study on magnetic therapy from Baylor College of Medicine, 9 months ago.

Alfano AP, Taylor AG, Foresman PA, et al. Static magnetic fields for treatment of fibromyalgia: a randomized controlled trial. J Altern Complement Med. 2001;7:53-64.

Brown CS, Ling FW, Wan JY, et al. Efficacy of static magnetic field therapy in chronic pelvic pain: A double-blind pilot study. Am J Obstet Gynecol. 2002;187:1581-1587.

Brown CS, Parker N, Ling F, et al. Effect of magnets on chronic pelvic pain. Obstet Gynecol. 2000;95:S29.

Carter R, Hall T, Aspy CB, et al. Effectiveness of magnet therapy for treatment of wrist pain attributed to carpal tunnel syndrome. J Fam Pract. 2002;51:38-40.

Colbert AP, Markov MS, Banerji M, et al. Magnetic mattress pad use in patients with fibromyalgia: a randomized double-blind pilot study. J Back Musculoskeletal Rehabilitation. 1999;13:19-31.

Collacot EA, Zimmerman JT, White DW, et al. Bipolar permanent magnets for the treatment of chronic low back pain: a pilot study. JAMA. 2000;283:1322-1325.

Frankel R, Liburdy R. Biological effects of static magnetic fields. In: Polk C, Postow E, eds. Handbook of Biological Effects of Electromagnetic Fields. 2nd ed. Boca Raton, FL: CRC Press; 1996.

Gmitrov J, Ohkubo C, Okano H. Effect of 0.25 T static magnetic field on microcirculation in rabbits. Bioelectromagnetics. 2002;23:224-229.

Hinman MR, Ford J, Heyl H. Effects of static magnets on chronic knee pain and physical function: a double-blind study. Altern Ther Health Med. 2002;8:50-55.

Holcomb RR, Parker RA, Harrison MS. Biomagnetics in the treatment of human pain: past, present, future. Environ Med. 1991;8:24-30.

Hong CZ, Lin JC, Bender LF, et al. Magnetic necklace: its therapeutic effectiveness on neck and shoulder pain. Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 1982;63:462-466.

Man D, Man B, Plosker H. The influence of permanent magnetic field therapy on wound healing in suction lipectomy patients: A double-blind study. Plast Reconstr Surg. 1999;104:2261-2266.

Martel GF, Andrews SC, Roseboom CG. Comparison of static and placebo magnets on resting forearm blood flow in young, healthy men. J Orthop Sports Phys Ther. 2002;32:518-524.

Segal NA, Toda Y, Huston J, et al. Two configurations of static magnetic fields for treating rheumatoid arthritis of the knee: double-blind clinical trial. Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 2001;82:1453-1460.

Vallbona C, Hazlewood CF, Jurida G. Response of pain to static magnetic fields in postpolio patients: a double blind pilot study. Arch Phys Med Rehabil. 1997;78:1200-1203.

Weintraub M. Magnetic bio-stimulation in painful diabetic peripheral neuropathy: a novel intervention-a randomized, double-placebo crossover study. Am J Pain Manag. 1999;9:8-17.

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CHATSDALE · Aug 31, 2004

I would not advise a patient to use magnets but once i was having a lot of trouble with an arthritic kknee someone advised me to use a magnet....when you are in pain you will try anything up to and including snake oil.....i ididn't have any strong magnets expect for some old pacemaker magnets which i couldn't very weell tape to my knee so.....please nobody laugh...i taped some refirgerator magnets to my knee and in three days the pain was gone...conincidence??perhaps but i am happy that the pain left and has not returned...several years now as to OP question no i don/t know of any specific studies...if anyone has any infor i would find it interesting love you all

CharlieRN · Aug 31, 2004

Yo Zenman
Sometimes you just plain think too much..
Life is much simpler with faith and acceptance, that if something works why worry it to death.

Zenman you are clearly thoughtful about your awareness of the limitations of the scientific method. I have no problem with that. Have you read "Science is a Sacred Cow"?

Helllllo Nurse has answered with a list of actual studies. I wish he/she had indicated which supported the use of magnets and which did not. Just cause I'm lazy and don't want to look them all up. :)

But check out the quote at the top of this page. "life is much simpler with faith and acceptance,... "

How can you argue with that? Life is simpler that way. Also shorter, poorer and less comfortable. Just believe what the nice people tell you and everything will be ok. Just give them your money. Its perfectly safe. No one would lie to you for profit. The psychic surgeon really does pull your cancer right out without an incision. A piece of red "kabbalic" string will cure you if you tie it on your wrist. Your CD will sound better if it has a piece of sparkly plastic tape stuck on the lable. Your electronic equipment will work better with a special stone put on it. A touch therapist will heal you by manipulating your aura. A homeopath will cure you with medicine that has less active ingredient than tap water. If you still have any problems an astrologer will make your decisions for you.

This way of thinking was tried before and most people were quite comfortable with it. It is much simpler. It was the dark ages.

Arrrhh!!! It took us a hundred thousand years to learn how to use science and in a couple hundred it has taken us from horse back to walking on the moon. Now people want to throw that away. I repeat, Arrrhh!!!

nightingale, RN · Sep 3, 2004

Interesting, at the bottom of this page, are two links for Magnet Therapy. Has anyone looked at them?

kidluvinRN · Sep 3, 2004

I have not used magnets personally, although I do hear people swear by them. I do have concerns about healthcare workers, especially ER or EMS wearing them at work. The Vagal Nerve Stimulator (VNS) is becoming a more common treatment for seizure disorder. The device is triggered by a magnet and prolonged exposure to magnets will shut the device off. Wearing a strong magnet on your wrist might affect your patient with a VNS.

CRNA010 · Sep 24, 2004

I am not here to bash anyone for using magnets. Heck they are a huge industry and many people swear by them. However, my thoughts lay along the same lines as Charlie since I believe in science and its methods to prove or disprove that something actually works or whether its the placebo effect.

I am all for the placebo effect and if your magnets allow that than go for it. Its a well documented fact that the mind triggers the same area of the brain for pain relief even if a subject is given a placebo, thus showing that if someone strongly believes in something they have the power of mind to turn on the same area of the brain that would be stimulated if they were actually given a useful drug. The mind is a very powerful thing.

I do agree with Charlie that I have not personally seen any scientific studies that have been reproduced by several researchers in different scenarios that substantially prove that magnets have a positive effect other than the placebo effect. Right now I can only see inconclusive studies that are "promising". Lets not forget the self-fulfilling prochecy either.

Some of you believe in magnet therapy and thats fine but its likely the placebo effect turning on an area of your brain that stimulates production of a pain relief chemical, at least that is all science has shown me so far.

I am not here to confirm or deny anyones findings that use them since many things that could not be proven have now been proven and maybe that will be true in the future for magnets.

Here is the link to one of the studies that was listed above.

http://www.stfrancishospitals.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?ID=41672&tabindex=3&tabid=37

And yes, the findings were inconclusive but promising. Here are some quotes from that study.

"However, despite this enthusiasm, there is not much in the way of reliable scientific evidence to support the use of magnets for these conditions."

"In double-blind, placebo-controlled trials, static magnets have shown promise for a number of conditions, but for no condition is the evidence conclusive."

"One study shows the general difficulties to be met in determining the benefits of treatments for pain conditions. This double-blind, placebo-controlled study of 30 people with carpal tunnel syndrome found that a single treatment with a static magnet produced dramatic and long-lasting benefits. However, identical dramatic benefits were seen in the placebo group. Thus, this study supports other trials that found placebo treatment quite effective for the treatment of pain, but provides no evidence for the effectiveness of magnets per se."

ohlpn · Sep 28, 2004

A lengthy treatise follows on magnetic therapy quackery:

http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/magnet.html

zenman · Oct 1, 2004

A lengthy treatise follows on magnetic therapy quackery:
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/QA/magnet.html

Stephen Barrett, M.D. is a retired psychiatrist who still has little of a reputation even among his peers. Sure, there are quacks in any form of medicine. However, if you read Candace Pert, Ph.D. (pharmacology), the researcher who discovered the opiate receptor and who wrote "Molecules of Emotion," your understanding of what might be possible will be increased.

talaxandra · Oct 1, 2004

... that is what "limits" the study, they know they are in one. We know little about the mind and consciousness. So, think for a moment, if you were a patient with say cardiac disease and consented to be in a study. You are going to hope that you get the "real" thing. That alone will cause changes. You doctor may like you and hope that you are getting the "real" thing. Whether you do or not, his attitude will affect you and your condition. Kinda messes things up doesn't it?

That doesn't seem like a strong foundation for dismissing double-blind trials, at least not in favour of annecdotal evidence. If patients in DB trials are hopeful, so too are those who try magnet therapy or, indeed, any complementary therapy.

The advantage to clinical trials is that the placebo factor can be measured and accounted for, leaving us (if the sample is statistically big enough) with meaningful infomation about effects in addition to the mind-over-matter effects.

I know that we all believe that there are therapies which work, at least in most people, regardless of the mind's influence - antibiotics treat septicaemia even if the patient is profoundly unconscious. Many of us have also seen patients who have a good prognosis but just die, for no apparent reason.

What concerns me about magnet therapy, among others, i that it's target audience is by definion desperate. They tend to have painful, chronic conditions like arthritis, which have ineffective conventional treatments and unpleasant or even life-threatening side effects. We hear about the success stories, but we don't know how many users that represents.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for treatments which are noninvasive, inexpensive, have few or no side-effects. I agree that the companies who have the money (pharmaceutical companies) have no interest in funding research for non-patentable therapies.

But if my patients ask me about therapies like these I want to be able to say in clear conscience that I can recommend it. I treated my carpal tunnel with a combination of B group vitamins, as recommended by my naturopath (and mother). My symptoms went away after a month, and I've never had a problem since. That doesn't mean I'm prepared to recommend it to my patients - I don't know if I had spontaneous resolution, if I was aware of my wrists and functioned differently, or if the B did in fact cure me.

CHATSDALE · Oct 2, 2004

i can see the validity of double blind research but have you ever noticed that when it involves men [viagra, aids research, etc] that these meds get a fast track...ovarian ca, pms, get put on the back burner...

drkolie · Oct 9, 2004

It is Niken and yes they work for most of my clients and I myself, I am a believer. Placebo? I doupt it. Yes, many fancy trials have been done and even the Mayo clinic used them. I had dropped a metal chair on the lateral aspect of my foot. Then x-rays, pain killers and almost a year later, I still had discomfort with no diagnosis of fracture . A friend introduced the Niken insoles to me and I thought "yeah, right"......especially at 30+ dollars. He said it would work or my money back. I tryed them and 24 hours later my pain was gone. I continued to wear them for 3 months and the pain has not returned. I have used the same magnet system for falls and swelling and there is a definate difference. Now that I have said all that, I also bought the expensive matress, thinking more magnets, better sleep. Well there was no dramatic difference with the mattress at all for me. Does any one drug work exactly the same on everyone..............no. Same thing with any modality. Examine the difference between aromatherapy and hydrotherapy on different people. No 2 clients will benefit the same. I doupt if it is all placebo. What I go on is safe treatment with proper outcomes and in my practice I have found everyone heals differently and some never do, dispite medicine or integrative medicine.