Disturbed Energy Field? Yes or No? - page 10

probably no other nursing diagnosis has garnered as much controversy as this one: energy field disturbance - wikipedia, the free encyclopedia scathing criticism of this nursing... Read More

  1. by   talaxandra
    But: not all alternative therapies are benign, not all are beneficial, and not all are compatible with the allopathic services provided. We therefore need to be selective about what alternative/complementary therapies we utilise, learn about and (tacitly or otherwise) endorse.

    Some of us are happy to be open-minded provided it's not to the point where our brains fall out.
  2. by   Woodenpug
    Quote from zenman
    Now you're getting it. I haven't looked at any nursing diagnoses in years but anyone who enters the doors of a hospital will have a "disturbed energy field." Review the mind-body connection.
    Since "therapeutic touch" has been demonstrated as absolutely nothing, your argument is that well..... Science just aint got it?

    I asked you for some way, a non-believer (yet open minded) could prove it to myself, if not to the scientific community and you made a silly joke.

    I like jokes, especially silly ones. Still, if "disturbed energy fields" did not have so much evidence against or at least had some shred of evidence to support it, that would be great. If the paradigm needs to be changed, cool... demonstrate something at least as effective as the placebo effect. I love how wanna be philosophers actually think, that vague descriptions and "I have so much more experiential wisdom" actually fools anyone who is interested in more than being fooled.
  3. by   zenman
    Quote from Woodenpug
    O.K. With all due respect, that's just silly.
    I guess a nuclear chain reaction would be a furiously disturbed energy field? Or a psychotic energy field? Antisocial?
    Oh well, lol.
    Well, the answer is yes.

    Quote from Woodenpug
    Since "therapeutic touch" has been demonstrated as absolutely nothing, your argument is that well..... Science just aint got it?
    Has anything been “proven” or “dis-proven” about TT?

    I asked you for some way, a non-believer (yet open minded) could prove it to myself, if not to the scientific community and you made a silly joke.
    You have used the word “silly” so many times that I’m thinking “projections.”

    How does an open-minded nonbeliever prove it to himself? Simple. Get out of your head and experience it. The “scientific community” is right here with me, studying shamanism, because as one physician told me, “I’ve finally found a way to help people.” A psychologist told me, "I'll never be able to use talk therapy again." As an aside, our energy work heals ourselves, something that few other practices do. Modern, western medicine literally rips the soul out of anyone who goes down that road.

    http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...ight-About-Now

    I’m reading this neurosurgeon’s book now, Medicine, Miracles, and Manifestations: A Doctor's Journey Through the Worlds of Divine Intervention, Near-Death Experiences and Universal Energy. You might like it: http://www.johnlturner.com/index.php/mmm/All-Pages.html

    From the research scientist, Oakley E. Gordon, Ph.D.:

    “The Andean culture also recognizes and values other types of knowledge in addition to intellectual knowledge. In particular, that culture supports a type of knowledge and understanding this is accessible through the area of the the heart (the 'munay' in Quechua, the language of the Andes). This knowledge is non-intellectual in nature, and rather than involving words and numbers, it involves love.

    My Western scientific culture has long abandoned the idea that love is located in the heart. We know that the heart is simply a biological pump and that emotional responses are orchestrated by the brain. The concept of a 'heart knowledge' that evokes love seems a quaint metaphor of a bygone era. Although the modern, intellectual, representation of physiology may hold its truth, it completely misses the point; the heart knowledge of the Andes resides outside of the intellect, and thus is of a realm where true and false have no meaning or relevance. Heart knowledge of reality is available when consciousness is moved from our head to our heart. In the West we so identify with our intellect that the idea that consciousness can reside anywhere but in the head can be hard to comprehend. When we are being intellectual our experience is that our consciousness is located in the area behind our eyes."

    And I’m just back from another Amazon trip about three weeks ago. Here’s one experience…with no drugs, not even caffeine:

    “When Aroldo blew smoke on my head I felt things shifting in my body. The shamans had been told that I wanted a double dose of icaros (healing songs).

    When one of the Shipibo shaman ladies came over and sang, I cried for a bit. After a while, another lady came over and I felt happy.

    Then two of them came over and sat at my feet and started singing. At first I thought there were also two singing behind me, but when I turned around no one was there. Next morning someone else said they heard the same.

    In a few minutes I started shaking up and down. I thought someone was walking and shaking the hut but when I turned around no one was up. I placed my hands on the floor and the building was still! I was the only thing shaking! When the ladies stopped singing, I stopped shaking.

    Later when I went back to my tambo I had the most intense visions of plants appearing in brilliant green color, then fading away only to be replaced by another picture.”
    Last edit by zenman on Aug 1, '09 : Reason: typo
  4. by   Woodenpug
    "How does an open-minded nonbeliever prove it to himself? Simple. Get out of your head and experience it."

    Are you open-minded enough to experience strychnine ingestion? Many serious practioners of a faith based healing tradition feel it's necessary before one is considered a true believer.
  5. by   zenman
    Quote from Woodenpug
    "How does an open-minded nonbeliever prove it to himself? Simple. Get out of your head and experience it."

    Are you open-minded enough to experience strychnine ingestion? Many serious practioners of a faith based healing tradition feel it's necessary before one is considered a true believer.
    Nope. I'm not a fan of that group
  6. by   Woodenpug
    Quote from zenman
    Nope. I'm not a fan of that group
    O.K. point taken or better stated by my favorite philosopher:

    "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh"- Robert A. Heinlein

    I accept that you believe in disturbed energy fields and appreciate the experience of your posts.:chuckle
  7. by   LMTtoRN
    I would have to say yes.

    I'm a new RN, but have over 30 years experience with alternative therapies. There have been multiple occasions over the last 6 years as a practicing massage therapist that I have worked on a client, "known" that something was wrong, and recommended that they go and see their primary HCP. One man had "back pain" that was not resolving with massage, I knew he needed treatment because something didn't "feel right"... he had a ruptured disk. Another client had a mole that didn't "feel right" and was diagnosed with melanoma after bringing it to the attention of their PCP. Another client had neck surgery because responses from massage treatment didn't "feel right." There are more, but I'll take up too much room here.

    Another example: as a last semester student nurse I had a patient recovering from abdominal surgery that was doing very well. He was sent home, but then returned the following week with a fever. The infection was treated, and it seemed he would be sent home again. I "knew" something was wrong, but there was no single thing that could be diagnosed. His fever was down, his BP was stable, his incision was healing well, his appetite was good, his bowels performed normally. I went in his room q30 mins to assess... assess something that would give me data in order to call the doctor. I spoke to my coassigned nurse and my instructor about my feelings, but they didn't see anything wrong either, and didn't have any advice for how I should bring it up to the doctor. The man died less than a week later of internal bleeding, possibly from an anastomosis that opened up. I never heard if an autopsy was done to determine the exact reason of death.

    If "disturbed energy field" was an option for me as a student, I would have used it. If it might have been taken seriously, and other diagnostic efforts were made to check this man's abdomen, could he have been saved? We'll never know.
  8. by   buddiage
    It is hard enough to maintain respect for the nursing profession without something like this to have to overcome. Nursing dx, in my opinion, is like restating the obvious- and for what benefit? I don't have enough to do already?

    While I am a spiritual person, and believe there are things that we cannot see (and maybe we do have energy fields), this does not belong in the nursing profession, and I would not know enough about an energy field to diagnose anything about it anyway. I believe in "gut" feelings, but I don't believe that a gut feeling has anything to do with energy fields. If NANDA clings to dealing with energy fields, than maybe NANDA needs to have a small paragraph in nursing texts in the "history" of nursing section, including the date it was neutralized. Come on....we know better now. MHO...
  9. by   sethmctenn
    Having it listed as a NANDA diagnosis doesn't require anyone to use it. It just gives options to those who do practice energy medicine as part of their holistic nursing practice.

    I'm actually a bit conflicted about this issue. In some ways, trying to merge holistic therapies into conventional treatment actually lessens both of them. For instance, in Ayurveda or Traditional Chinese Medicine, one doesn't treat disease, one improves the underlying consitutional imbalance that allows the disease to manifest in a given individual. That is really hard to test. Most of the studies have been on taking one drug, one herb, etc...and test it individually. If you did the same form of research on farming, it would show that farming has no scientific basis.
    First, one would study clearing land and no food would grow so therefor clearing land is not a scientifically proven method of growing food
    Then, one would study fertilizing and get only weeds so it's not effective
    Then, one would study planting seeds (but not clearing the land or fertilizing)
    etc...
    So, holistic therapies are put into a conventional medicine context where the 5000 year (Ayurvedic) to 3000 year (Chinese Medicine) constiutional medicine basis is lost and then research is done on them.

    My own experience with energy medicine has been extremely positive. I'm not sure how to best do research on it. I do believe that quantum physics gives some theoretical underpinning for it. We haven't had much success studying other aspects of quantum physics yet. I'm an open minded sceptic. Until it's proven to me, I don't necessarily give it much credence. Energy based medicines have been proven to me through experience with animals and people. I know that's anecdotal but MOST medicine has come from we tried it without any real evidence, it worked, we studied it to prove that it works. I'm in the minority in that I believe that evidence based medicine rarely is. It's a religion/belief system as much as any other. So much research is horribly biased and the conclusions often don't truly match the research. I put as much trust in the validity of my own clinical experience and choose to believe the patients who tell me these therapies work for them. Is it placebo effect? Why would I care? (I don't believe it is because it works well on many animals but...) If the treatment is absolutely safe and the patient perceives benefit (and uses fewer meds and therefor health care dollars) then I'm for it.

    http://www.scienceandsensibility.org/?p=507
  10. by   zenman
    From a class I'm taking: "We've seen that the human mind can be defined as an embodied and relational process that regulates the flow of energy and information. The mind emerges as this flow occurs within and among people, and it develops as the genetically programmed maturation of the nervous system is shaped by ongoing experience."

    Daniel J. Siegel, M.D.
  11. by   lilyflower06
    This is an old post but I hope this message will still be read. I am a nurse who can perceive the aura (bio-
    electromagnetic energy field) that surrounds all living beings & can be visualized "scientifically" throught the use of Kirlian photography. I know this is controversial as this is not mainstream practice, however in many non-western practices of health/healing this is very normal & accepted. Here in N. Amercia, the use of Therapeutic Touch & other modalites of energy work are being increasingly utilized as a complimentary treatment for any disease process.

    I work on a rural community hospital medical floor with a variety of patients- pre/post-op surgical, cardiac, palliative, acute & sub acute. I am a trained Jikiden Reiki practioner & offer sessions to both my patients & coworkers with excellent outcomes/positive feedback. It's unfortunate that in the "sick-care" industry where often we are merely mending & masking not truly healing underlying disease processes that we can't be more open to other ways. These practices are ancient & have survived the test of time in other cultures because they work. I feel very blessed that other options to help my patients. I realize there are many skeptics but just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    I'm sure many Holistic nurses worked hard to have NANDA include the "disturbed energy field" on the list. I'm grateful to those pioneers who are ahead of their time.
  12. by   jzkfel
    I'd like to see all of the nursing diagnosises (?) go away. My understanding is that they were created to help establish nursing as its own profession, but they have the effect of introducing language and terms that aren't used or understood by other members of the health care team (like docotors, pharmacists, physical therapists). Alteration in fluid balance? Why not call it what it is? (dehydration or fluid overload)
    As far as disturbed energy field, where is the empirical EVIDENCE to support that diagnosis? Kirilian photography may show some visual phenomenom around a person, but defining it as an energy field that affects their physiological status is an assumption.
    That's not to say that alternative therapies don't help people. I would be much more comfortable if we acknowledged that they work for some people, for reasons that are unclear or at least not universally understood. It's not enough to say that certain people can sense other people's "auras". A diagnosis has to based on evidence that can be ascertained by and communicated to virtually all investigators.
  13. by   nursel56
    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]QUOTE=lilyflower06;]This is an old post but I hope this message will still be read. I am a nurse who can perceive the aura (bio-electromagnetic energy field) that surrounds all living beings & can be visualized "scientifically" throught the use of Kirlian photography.
    As pointed out in the excellent summary above, whatever Kirlian photography reveals can't be assumed to be an "aura", let alone what kind of aura it is. It's unlikely that even 2 "holistic" nurses will agree, kept completely independent of each other. It's entirely subjective to the "see-er" and the "seen". It's not the least bit surprising that people who believe it works report that it works. If something is intended to treat a condition in the physical realm, though, it should be quantifiable in the physical realm by other nurses who are caring for that patient. There should not be, as part all nursing curriculums, a modality that is not seen by other than the nurse who claims to have a special gift.

    I'm the first to say that non-traditional modalities can be very beneficial, and it's perfectly legal for an RN to become a practitioner of Reiki, Aroma-therapy, Rolfing, Acu-pressure, Gestalt therapy, pet therapy, Therapeutic Touch, Re-birthing or any one of dozens of alternative therapies available.
    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]
    I know this is controversial as this is not mainstream practice, however in many non-western practices of health/healing this is very normal & accepted. Here in N. Amercia, the use of Therapeutic Touch & other modalites of energy work are being increasingly utilized as a complimentary treatment for any disease process.
    It has no place in nursing school curricula. It can't be taught, and there is no way to know exactly what it is that one nurse is seeing, or even if they are telling the truth about it, if there even was a truth. Is that aura green? Orange? Who knows? What if I see black spikes and you see a golden halo?

    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I work on a rural community hospital medical floor with a variety of patients- pre/post-op surgical, cardiac, palliative, acute & sub acute. I am a trained Jikiden Reiki practioner & offer sessions to both my patients & coworkers with excellent outcomes/positive feedback.
    Do you do this during your working hours at the hospital as an RN? Do these patient's doctors order these things? Does insurance pay for it? If this stuff is really a "diagnosis" that works, it should be done in a controlled setting, with the agreement of the MD (otherwise if there is a miraculous cure he won't know what to attribute it to, or will attribute it mistakenly to something he ordered, putting other patients at risk) and since the vast majority of doctors and the lay public think it's "iffy" at best, we should not have to pay for it.

    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]It's unfortunate that in the "sick-care" industry where often we are merely mending & masking not truly healing underlying disease processes that we can't be more open to other ways. These practices are ancient & have survived the test of time in other cultures because they work.
    I know lots of people believe a myriad of things work. They have survived the test of time because it has been empirically proven that one's beliefs affect the subjective experience of illness. Millions of people probably believe a trip to Lourdes will work. Or Peter Popoff laying hands on your forehead will work. The best that can be said, is that since they don't (usually) cause harm, a nurse can independently practice those alternative modalities. These things are not without risk, though.

    Some years ago in Colorado, a little girl suffocated in a sheet wrapped around her, which was supposed to simulate a replacement trip through the birth canal in an effort to cure her "attachment disorder". If I think about what she went through too much, I won't be able to sleep at night. Isolated and extreme case? Yeah, probably, but the point is if you feel that sort of thing is "well-care" it should be subject to the same scrutiny and regulation as what you call "sick-care".

    [FONT="Comic Sans MS"]I feel very blessed that other options to help my patients. I realize there are many skeptics but just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
    And just because you believe something exists doesn't mean it does.

    I'm glad you are able to help people feel better with your alternative practices, but it's a mistake to include them in a care plan. I think Nursing Diagnoses are silly and superfluous, too, though the issues they attempt to describe are not. They do provide lots of fodder for academic flights of fancy, though, and can be an interesting read.

Must Read Topics


close