Allowing Corpsman to Become Nurses - page 2
Watching the Presidential debate tonight and a statement by Obama made my head turn. He was relating a story when a corpsman was stating that he has treated wounded soldiers but when he became a... Read More
Oct 23, '12Quote from sali22*** I was a medic with the army infantry doing the job that you were probaly imagining military medics doing. However after that I went to work in a large army hospital and functioned in a roll similar to an LPN. At my request I rotated through a number of departments including L&D, CCU, SICU, ER, med-surg and some others. I did assessments on patients and passed them on the nurse corps officer (RN) supervising me, passed PO meds, placed IV & NGs and lots and lots of other normal . Lots of medic and corpsmen work in hopitals.I was wrong I guess, I think I assumed nurses worked in military hospitals and corpsman took care of hurt soldiers and whatnot.
Oct 23, '12Quote from CountyRatIf you are going to quote our president, please be accurate. your "quote" is no where near the actual text or tone of that part of the debate. Regardless of what you think he meant, we can at least be clear on what he said.I remember the President's remark very specifically. The tone of the statement was what caught my attention. Mr. Obama put a strong emphasis on the work nurse; as in, "he could not [even] get a job as a [mere] NURSE! We have to change that!" Words in brackets are my additions to convey the tone of the President's comment. I believe that is what Mr. Obama was trying to convey. If you prefer, read the statement without the inserted words. What do you think? I must say, it rankled this old nurse.
OBAMA: You know, I was having lunch with some-a veteran in Minnesota who had been a medic dealing with the most extreme circumstances. When he came home and he wanted to become a nurse, he had to start from scratch. And what we've said is let's change those certifications. The first lady has done great work with an organization called Joining Forces putting our veterans back to work.
Oct 23, '12Well said CountyRat!!
I agree nurses need to be proud and need to be respected; I also feel that life experience in invaluable.
Not just with nursing school but with other career paths in life I don't think we are allowed credit for what we know or have learned the hard way.
Everyone needs to prove a level of competency on a given topic to be considered proficient, sure, fine, perfectly ok with that. I simply do not see a measureable way to do it, therefor we all end up having to take classes and learn things we already know. Sure there are a ton of differences being in a war zone compared to a med/surg floor. But a foley is a foley, and an IV is an IV, Lungs are in the same place, and so are the other organs.
Oct 23, '12Well, to Mr. Obama's surprise there still is a 10th amendment. If he wants to allow corpsman to practice as nurses in VA hospitals then fine but otherwise it is up to individual state boards which will never allow that. There IS already a pathway for corpsmen to become nurses and it's called Excelsior College. This program/pathway has been in existence long before Pres. Obama even knew how to pronounce "corpsman".
I graduated from Excelsior and there is nothing wrong with that other than some workplace stigma with online programs in general (which is subsiding). I would say if an ex-military corpsman does not know about Excelsior and the myriad of options for them then maybe they shouldn't be a nurse in the first place b/c they do not have the general skills to use Google. This isn't a secret and as a doctor with 3 college degrees I can honestly say nurses are not impressed with anyone's education or credentials outside of nursing. It's their right and responsibility to protect the profession...lowering or changing the standards is not wise.
Oct 23, '12I have worked with only 3 corpsman that became nurses...one LPN and 2 RNs.
There may be more that I don't know about.
There clearly is a pathway to become a nurse with that background and experience.
It is just that the training to become a corpsman is not the same as the training and education required for nursing.
Oct 23, '12I was an Army medic, very similiar to a corpsman. I agree that the skills are very close to that of a MA, and although the skills are similiar, the education is not. The education I have gotten as an RN has gone way beyond teaching skills.
Corpsman and medics work in many different types of facilities and with different types of patients. So, the basic patient care knowledge and skill is there. When I went to nursing school I had a better understanding of certain things, but by no means was it a cake walk, as the education was greater than anything I was expected to know previously.
I agree that the skills should count for something, and I would advocate for it any day. But, it is only the beginning...
Oct 23, '12To be fair, the information about how to complete a nursing degree is available to military personnel through their Educational Services Office/officer, and corpsmen can get their stuff done while serving- if they make that a big priority while enlisted. I knew many enlisted people who lauded me for taking college courses instead of racing motorcycles or drinking beer- what can I say? I'm out and successful in the civilian world, and some of them complain to me about the usual military BS that they still put up with (uniform inspections, other BS, etc) and I just silently think back to the hours I spent burning midnight oil, dreaming of enjoying the freedoms that I served one 6-year enlistment to protect! I served honorably and proudly, and got out happily! With the rise of online programs and technology, there is simply no excuse for not getting some college done while in the military. In my opinion, too many enlisted people spend FAR too much time out drinking and whatnot.
Corpsmen are not automatically = to nurses. Corpsmen are more like medical assistants, CNAs, phlebotomists, and other UAP roles combined in different and varying combinations depending on where they are assigned. Some are nurse material, and some are not. I do think many could handle SNF, but not many could jump into acute care without more training.
The biggest difference is that they are not college educated, though their military schools may give them about 5-20 units of elective college credit that will help them toward that ASN or BSN degree. There are nurses in the military who went to nursing school before joining the military, and they enter the military as RNs and serve as nurses. The military doesn't take ADNs these days, only BSN which qualifies them to take officer billets and manage corpsmen.
After thinking it over alot, I think that enrollment preference would be far more valuable to corpsmen than a faster track into nursing.Last edit by mmm333 on Oct 23, '12
Oct 23, '12Openmouth, insert foot....."I do think many could handle SNFs but not.....acute care..."Really? Working in a SNF is no easier than working acute care. I've seen many many nurses with med-surg backgrounds not be able to make it two weeks in a SNF.You, and Mr. Obama, should both think before you speak.
Oct 23, '12They surely can! My boss was in the military when his son was born, a corpsman (corpsperson?) attended the birth.
Quote from sali22They kind of seem like different jobs though right? They aren't out delivering babies and taking care of kids with cancer and such. I could certainly see some type of transition program but do they have all the skills of a nurse?
Maybe I am wrong and don't know what their job as a corpsman entails.
Oct 23, '12One other aspect of the military that explains why corpsmen can do things like place chest tubes in the field is that they are in REMOTE, EMERGENCY situations where there is no other choice.
This, and the fact that nobody can sue the military especially as a member of the military, whereas anyone can sue a hospital, is the reason they can have a pretty large UAP scope of practice while in the military- explains alot about why they cannot do more once they get out of the military and into the real world where people get sued, and where patients and their families are going to demand education behind their clinicians license.
Oct 23, '12Interesting as an RN, BSN, MSN with son presently a Corpsman previously took care of new moms and newborns. Bloodworkon both, IV's, meds, etc., etc. I am impressed at the scope of their practice. My son is now FMF Corpsman and supersedes many RN's with his abilities and duties. Must also carry a gun/rifle with all of this.I am sorry I did not listen to the debate last night. I have a petition "Corpsman to RN" which many all over the country have signed. I gave it to my Senator and had to go through an hour or so justifying this. Next they promised me they were taking it to Washington. I figured they were politely sweeping it under the rug. Do you think I had something to do with the President mentioning this? Hmmmm I s ure hope so.
Oct 24, '12I think, as usual, many people are missing the larger point. Someone did allude to it earlier in the thread. He was merely trying to suggest that he would like to see easier transition for service people to the private/civilian sector. It really wasn't even about nursing per se, it was about the veterans. Good grief.
Oct 24, '12I still think that for someone to practice nursing, one must have relevant training regardless if you have already experience in treating wounded individuals.