LPN doing assessments Mn

Specialties Geriatric

Published

Re: LPN doing assesments? permalink

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MINNESOTA NURSES ASSOCIATION statement !

Assessment is identified both professionally and legally

within the context of the registered nurse's role, and is an

activity that can not be delegated to non-RNs. The Minnesota

Board of Nursing Laws do not identify assessment as any part

of the LPN role. LPNs who do perform assessments, and the

registered nurses who delegate to, or allow LPNs to perform

assessments, may be committing reportable offenses under

the Grounds for (Professional) Disciplinary Action, Chapter

148.216.

All the forms say ASSESSMENT on top that I need to sign and complete. Should I be signing them as an LPN .

MsLady06

217 Posts

Re: LPN doing assesments? permalink

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MINNESOTA NURSES ASSOCIATION statement !

Assessment is identified both professionally and legally

within the context of the registered nurse's role, and is an

activity that can not be delegated to non-RNs. The Minnesota

Board of Nursing Laws do not identify assessment as any part

of the LPN role. LPNs who do perform assessments, and the

registered nurses who delegate to, or allow LPNs to perform

assessments, may be committing reportable offenses under

the Grounds for (Professional) Disciplinary Action, Chapter

148.216.

All the forms say ASSESSMENT on top that I need to sign and complete. Should I be signing them as an LPN .

Yikes! I hate doing assessments anyway

egglady, LPN

361 Posts

Specializes in Geriatrics.

Guess I wont look for a job in MN. I live in WI and work charge and do plenty of assessments. If I have a question or dont know something I do not hesitate to ask the RN- if one is available!!! I will keep my new job search to WI I guess....

casi, ASN, RN

2,063 Posts

Specializes in LTC.

There is a way around this. I've worked with a lot of LPNs in long term care and acute care. Instead of doing assessments they "collect data".

Specializes in LTC, Nursing Management, WCC.
Guess I wont look for a job in MN. I live in WI and work charge and do plenty of assessments. If I have a question or dont know something I do not hesitate to ask the RN- if one is available!!! I will keep my new job search to WI I guess....

WI does not allow LPNs to do assessments either.

"Based on the standards of practice for RN's contained in N6.03(1), a Registered Nurse is directly responsible for ensuring that Assessment, Planning, Intervention and Evaluation are performed in order to maintain health, prevent illness, or care for the ill. The only portion of the Nursing Process that contains nursing acts that can be delegated to LPN's or less skilled assistants is the Intervention phase, which includes the collection of data (vital signs etc.) necessary to continuously Assess, Plan and Evaluate care." http://drl.wi.gov/boards/nur/pap/pap05.pdf

Specializes in LTC, Nursing Management, WCC.
There is a way around this. I've worked with a lot of LPNs in long term care and acute care. Instead of doing assessments they "collect data".

:D LOL

Riseupandnurse

658 Posts

Specializes in Medical Surgical.

The NCLEX-RN review books stress that only registered nurses can assess, teach, or evaluate, and that LPNs are to be given only stable patients and delegated standard tasks with predictable outcomes. So this is not peculiar to one state or group of states. LPNs can check out the patients, but they are supposed to be bringing their "concerns" to the RN, who is responsible for deciding what to do about any problems. What you see in practice? Well, we all know the answer to that. But here in MO a patient has to have an RN assessment every 24 hours, and on first admission to the floor.

KimmieKoo72

65 Posts

Specializes in Acute Rehab, LTC.

Okay... this is a touchy subject.

There are so many things that LPN's can NOT do. Where I work, I as a LOWLY LPN, yes, an LPN.. do assessments everyday. Please tell me what is so hard about it? Why would it be a task that can be RN only? Give me a break! If something seems out of the ordinary I go to the ALMIGHTY RN and tell her of my findings, and then I write a lovely little nurses note stating my unusal findings and that the charge RN has been notified. Then she as the wonderful RN can go and assess further. LPNs are fully capable of doing assessments, or data collecting, whatever.. it's the same thing.

Sorry... I needed to vent a little. But this kind of stuff has kept me motivated to get through school and get that RN. Where I work meds, vitals and assesments are the only things I have that make me even feel like a nurse! I feel like I have to tell some people that I work with that LPN stands for Licensed Practical NURSE... We are nurses, but we are utilized more so as nursing aides, at least on my floor!

Specializes in LTC, Nursing Management, WCC.

In all honesty I do not understand why it is a touchy subject. It is what it is. Is there some disconnect between what is taught vs. how it really is? Sometimes I wonder why there has to be this “walk on eggshells” type of feel to this. For example…let’s kick it up one notch… I do not hear RNs saying there are upset because they can not do things that an advanced practice RN can do. It’s the law and has to do with scopes of practice.

Why is it wrong for RNs to say to LPNs that they can not do assessments? As an RN if someone was trying to practice within the scope of RN who is not an RN, then it needs to be discussed. This isn’t about “I am better than you” but it is, I am credentialed to practice professional nursing and LPNs are not. Again…it is what it is.

Sometimes when I hear this from LPNs, I can’t help but get a little peeved when they state they are nurses and therefore they can do things an RN can do. Please do not do this because really it is discounting the education of RNs. I can’t help but think if one wants to be in the role of the RN, then go to school to be one. I wish to do things as an APRN so I will need to go back to school. But I do not harbor bad things against APRNs while I am only an RN.

With that being said… I do feel that LPNs are a valuable member of the nursing profession. LPNs do have their own license and are allowed to practice practical nursing. However, it does have to be under the supervision of an RN or MD. Should an LPN want to practice in the higher level of nursing then the LPN should be returning to school and getting an RN degree. If the LPN does not want to do this…then please accept the constraints of the present degree and credentials. The RN owns the nursing practice and process. It can be shared with an LPN but the LPN can not independently own it.

KimmieKoo72

65 Posts

Specializes in Acute Rehab, LTC.

This is the truth:

Some of these RN's wouldn't be able to function, nor provide GOOD patient care if it wasn't for the LPNs. It's amazing how RNs think they OWN the nursing practice, when the majority of them can not even provide patient care properly. Some don't remember how to put in foleys, how to put on a brief, or the basics of transfering a patient.. this is the basics of nursing!!!! I think some of these RNs need to go back to the old days when there wasn't such a thing as LPNs or STNA's when RNs had to do EVERYTHING and not delegate their work! Alot of them would sink instead of swim!

I AM in school by the way, I am pursuing my RN so then I can do everything an RN can do, imagine that!!!!!!!! And I can promise that I will never degrade the LPNs I may work with in the future. I know how hard they work, and for no appreciation.

As for this assessment issue, ever heard of signing your name and writing a nurses note stating "Agree with LPN assessment" or... "Upon further assessment found...." That's what alot of facilities do around here. Never had an issue!!

And for the record... LPN'S ARE NURSES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:yeah: Don't ever insult LPNs in that regard again! We are nurses, whether you think so or not! We are licensed by the same Board of Nursing you are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

L.P.N. = LICENSED PRACTICAL ***NURSE***:redbeathe

KimmieKoo72

65 Posts

Specializes in Acute Rehab, LTC.
In all honesty I do not understand why it is a touchy subject. It is what it is. Is there some disconnect between what is taught vs. how it really is? Sometimes I wonder why there has to be this "walk on eggshells" type of feel to this. For example...let's kick it up one notch... I do not hear RNs saying there are upset because they can not do things that an advanced practice RN can do. It's the law and has to do with scopes of practice.

Why is it wrong for RNs to say to LPNs that they can not do assessments? As an RN if someone was trying to practice within the scope of RN who is not an RN, then it needs to be discussed. This isn't about "I am better than you" but it is, I am credentialed to practice professional nursing and LPNs are not. Again...it is what it is.

Sometimes when I hear this from LPNs, I can't help but get a little peeved when they state they are nurses and therefore they can do things an RN can do. Please do not do this because really it is discounting the education of RNs. I can't help but think if one wants to be in the role of the RN, then go to school to be one. I wish to do things as an APRN so I will need to go back to school. But I do not harbor bad things against APRNs while I am only an RN.

With that being said... I do feel that LPNs are a valuable member of the nursing profession. LPNs do have their own license and are allowed to practice practical nursing. However, it does have to be under the supervision of an RN or MD. Should an LPN want to practice in the higher level of nursing then the LPN should be returning to school and getting an RN degree. If the LPN does not want to do this...then please accept the constraints of the present degree and credentials. The RN owns the nursing practice and process. It can be shared with an LPN but the LPN can not independently own it.

You need to stop discounting the education of the LPNs. And might I remind you... an RN practices under an MD also, so what's your point?

Rexie68

296 Posts

Specializes in Vascular Access Nurse.
the nclex-rn review books stress that only registered nurses can assess, teach, or evaluate, and that lpns are to be given only stable patients and delegated standard tasks with predictable outcomes. so this is not peculiar to one state or group of states. lpns can check out the patients, but they are supposed to be bringing their "concerns" to the rn, who is responsible for deciding what to do about any problems. what you see in practice? well, we all know the answer to that. but here in mo a patient has to have an rn assessment every 24 hours, and on first admission to the floor.

it's all a matter of wording. lpn's do lots of assessments, but as someone else said, it's might be called other things. heck, i do the "assessments" (mds') for medicare and medicaid, but an rn must sign it also. in my case, she's not re-assessing the pt, just agreeing that it was done correctly. as far as giving lpns only the "stable" pts.....hahahaha. again, where i work, there has to be an rn in the building 24 hours/day, but she may be on another unit altogether. you may only have lpns as your charge nurses on the floor for 2 or 3 days, because the rn is on one of the other 3 units. that's just the way ltc is. i'm sure it's quite different in the hospital. in our facility, sometimes the only rn is on the least skilled unit...it just happens that way. we lpn's may be the only nurse "assessing" the pt...but we don't hesitate to call the doc if we need orders or call the rn if we're unsure of something.

anyway, it's semantics. the cna's "assess" that the pt is wet, so they change them, or "assess" that their pt is in pain and notify the nurse. i might "assess" the where, why, what kind, how intense, etc type of pain and decide if the pt needs her prn tylenol or lortab, or if it's something i need to call the doc about. again, if i'm unsure i'll call the rn.

ok...enough from me. we might not sign a hospital admission "assessment", but reality is much different than nursing school....

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