Ok this may be a rant but.... - page 4

Why does it seem that most people believe that ADN programs are not as good as BSN programs?! Do we not all take NCLEX? Do we not all have the same goals...to be good caring nurses? Why is there such a distinction made amongst... Read More

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    Quote from nursel56

    I believe she was talking about the broader institutional "they" rather than the colleague "they". As for the supposed inferiority complex you identified due to you hearing ADNs complain more often well. . yeah, I guess you'd expect people on the receiving end of criticism to have their issues show up in forums like this. I don't see too many BSN students going out of their way to post about how wonderful it is that the Institute of Medicine believes your sisters and brothers are just a shade above incompetent.

    At the risk of sounding like I'm harping (carping?), those things are not scope of practice. Some students view those courses as either superfluous or available outside of the BSN structure.
    I think you saw my post in the other thread.

    If the idea is that a nurse is someone who assesses patients, communicates with doctors and administers medications from the bedside (along with all the other necessary and wonderful things bedside nurses do), then yes, you're right, these classes are superfluous.

    But if the idea is that a nurse is someone involved in the care of the whole person, family, population and community, including their responses to treatment, stress, their environment and all the many things that effect their health and health behaviors in every place where they find themselves, then a broader classroom preparation becomes necessary.

    Where this gets muddy is when assumptions get made, that, for example a two year degree nurse can't do all these things, or, on the other hand, that BSN prepared nurses are clinically inadequate. Neither is true. Clearly, ADNs get a grounding in holistic and collaborative care, and clearly BSNs get the same amount of clinical preparation as ADNs.

    Frankly, I am for a broadening of the profession. I would like every nurse to be as well prepared as he or she can possibly be. If doctors go to school as long as they do, why should the people carrying out their orders not be at the very least baccalaureates?

    I am for independent nursing as well, for the practice of nursing as a separate discipline, a profession where it's practitioners are prepared as highly as they can be, who can work autonomously.

    I would encourage everyone to go and get their bachelors if they have not, and to go on to graduate degrees if they have and are so inclined. It only improves the profession itself and it's perception. It means better opportunities for a greater number of people. It means elevating the profession.

    I am really sorry if this sounds snooty. It isn't my intention.

    Is a bachelors degree better than an associates degree? Does the question even need to be asked? Of course it is.

    Is a BSN prepared nurse a better nurse than an ADN prepared nurse? Does the question even need to be asked? Of course not.

    But it remains that the former is better prepared upon graduation to embrace nursing as a complete profession in every environment.

    You're welcome to disagree.
    OB-nurse2013 and zoe92 like this.

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  2. 0
    After reading everyone's posts, everyone has me thinking:

    Why don't all nurses accept eachother for who they are? A BSN RN can help ASNs with how all that extra theory applies at the bedside while ASN prepared nurses can help others with their experience.

    There is nothing wrong with nurses wanting to better the profession as a whole by advancing one's education. Any knowledge that adds to one's critical thinking skills at the bedside to help others is worth it. I am a BSN RN who is confident in both my theory and critical thinking skills. I am grateful for my education.
  3. 0
    Quote from Anoetos
    I think you saw my post in the other thread.
    I didn't. Which thread are you talking about?

    But if the idea is that a nurse is someone involved in the care of the whole person, family, population and community, including their responses to treatment, stress, their environment and all the many things that effect their health and health behaviors in every place where they find themselves, then a broader classroom preparation becomes necessary.
    That sounds very familiar, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that when a student in an ADN program gets the full complement of NANDA immersion, he or she can go toe to toe with a BSN nurse on holistic, wholeistic, and carative any ole' day.

    I'm actually one who thinks the clinical hours debate is pretty pointless, as is trying to broadly define individual trait differences such as aplomb, savvy, worldliness, curiosity, task-oriented etc. Those are more associated with individuals than school curriculum. Any such major differences in clinical hours usually work themselves out after doing the job for a while.

    My issue has never been with the concept of higher education. I'm a huge proponent of lifelong learning. I just dislike the tactics used by the BSN-only advocates, because many times they are just flat out dishonest.

    I would also tell people to go for the BSN if they had the choice, because in this job climate you need to do everything in your power to make yourself more marketable. Even if the differences were only in perception, those perceptions can impact your life just as much as reality.

    Your wish to see more nurses with master's, etc is coming true slowly, but the fact is that good old-fashioned bedside nursing still operates within the framework of medicine, as well it should considering the comparative lengths of education. Do you think maybe MDs somewhere are decrying all the FNPs being "cranked out" and asking if a nurse wants to be a doctor why doesn't he or she just go to medical school? It's possible.

    And no, you don't appear snooty at all.
  4. 0
    Quote from Anoetos
    Well, no. An ADN prepares the graduate for general, bedside nursing. A BSN prepares the graduate for a much larger scope of practice, including management, public health, and research.

    This is not to say that ADNs cannot do these things, it just means that they will have to get to the level of the BSN graduate while on the job rather than having learned the material in the classroom, in which case, why not just go back to school?
    You might feel that way, but an employer hiring a new grad at a non-magnet hospital doesn't. It's the employer's opinion that matters.

    It also depends on where you work, most BSN grads aren't going right into management. I've seen both LPN's and ADN's in management and public health (I've never met or heard of anybody who did nursing research) but I'm just a CNA and I know most about LTC and some acute settings.

    I'm not going to insult the Bachelor's trained nurses. I plan on going RN-BSN after I finish my RN program, but I also don't want to work as a bedside nurse for the rest of my life. If I planned on staying a bedside nurse forever and ever I don't think I would bother doing the RN-BSN.
  5. 0
    You are obviously unwilling to "accept viewpoints that are not your own". I see how well your education prepared you.
  6. 1
    Quote from Anoetos
    Well, no. An ADN prepares the graduate for general, bedside nursing. A BSN prepares the graduate for a much larger scope of practice, including management, public health, and research. This is not to say that ADNs cannot do these things, it just means that they will have to get to the level of the BSN graduate while on the job rather than having learned the material in the classroom, in which case, why not just go back to school?
    All ADN programs are different. My ADN program included Professional Issues in Nursing both years, in which we learned leadership and management. Our last clinical was heavily focused on leadership and management where we each were "charge nurse". We assigned patients, delegated and acted as the role of our clinical instructor. Throughout our entire program, we learned research and wrote numerous research papers. We did numerous case studies in management and worked on resumes and portfolios. I am starting my ADN to BSN this coming Spring semester at NIU, and I have read all the course descriptions. All topics of which we already completed in our ADN program.
    soxgirl2008 likes this.
  7. 0
    Either way, the BSN is higher nursing education. It in NO WAY makes someone a better nurse. They just spent the extra time/money receiving the bachelor's degree rather than associate's. I would probably go for the ADN rather than BSN, but my parents offered to pay for my BSN (I am only 19 and a traditional student), and where I lived it is easier to find a job with the BSN. I will never look down on someone who has an ADN and does not plan on obtaining any more nursing degrees.
  8. 0
    Quote from zoe92
    Either way, the BSN is higher nursing education. It in NO WAY makes someone a better nurse. They just spent the extra time/money receiving the bachelor's degree rather than associate's. I would probably go for the ADN rather than BSN, but my parents offered to pay for my BSN (I am only 19 and a traditional student), and where I lived it is easier to find a job with the BSN. I will never look down on someone who has an ADN and does not plan on obtaining any more nursing degrees.
    It is NOT higher nursing education. It is higher education overall because of the Gen ed and interdisciplinary study requirements, but I repeat it is NOT higher nursing education. I have used the same leadership/management.... texts as some universities and had tons of research papers due throughout both years. This topic urks me to no end. I can't wait til I'm done with my bsn classes (in which I've already learned this stuff in my adn program) just so I don't have to have people look down on me anymore for only having an adn. Even before nursing school, before my prereqs, I had 94 credit hours from a jc and NIU. I have more education than most graduating BSNs and I don't even have my BSN yet. I'm just SICK of the snooty ones who think they are better because they went to a four year school.
  9. 0
    I hope you weren't assuming that I am one of the snooty ones. And when I say higher nursing education, I meant that you have a higher nursing degree with a BSN... which is the truth. It doesn't mean you bring more to the nursing profession.
  10. 0
    My husband holds an ADN. I am currently in school for a BSN. The main difference I have noted is generally the theory surrounding nursing. In my program, we spend a heck of a lot more time learning theory, research, and cultural viewpoints. In his program, they hit the ground running, beginning clinicals 6 weeks after the very first day of nursing school. They were required to care for their own patients. I did not begin clinicals until level 2. The first clinical was shadowing a nurse for the day. After that, we have a partner to take care of one patient for the day for 2 weeks. After that, we are on our own with a patient. It's just different. I'd say the pace is a lot different. He learned the same nursing care that I am learning now, though. Also, there is community health thrown into the mix for me. He did not do any of that in his ADN program. Just different stuff you have to learn on top of clinical skills. (:


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