Nursing school, setting you up for failure???

Jilaweez, BSN, MSN, RN · May 9, 2007

I am sorry to hear what your brother is going through. I have often wondered the same thing myself. I think if they change the rules midway through the game then you should be grandfathered in under the rules that applied when you started (in most situations). I wish him the best.

Soup Turtle · May 9, 2007

They make it hard because they have so many people who want in nursing programs and so few spaces that they can afford to be selective. There is a shortage of nursing instructors along with the shortage of nurses.

I was on a waiting list for a LVN program and the requirements were changed. The changes shut me out! It was a drag, but I met the requirements and took my RN pre requisites while I was at it. I'm now in a competitive entry RN program.

The point is, if he wants it bad enough, he's got to work around their requirements because there are plenty of other people who will.

Daytonite, BSN, RN · May 9, 2007

How bad does your brother want to be a nurse? Seems to me that someone who put all their eggs into one basket and then is ready to sit back and quit after one defeat may not want the golden egg that badly. This is not the end of the world. Each nursing school, each college, makes their rules. There are crummy schools just like there are crummy people. That shouldn't turn you or your brother off to the prospect of going to school. What your brother has to do is look for another school, that's all. This is no different than if you are looking for a job, put all your hopes into one job, get hired and it doesn't work out. You go out and look for another job smarter about what to be wary of. Rather than feed his low emotional state at this time, I'd be encouraging him to start investigating other nursing schools; that this school wasn't a right fit for him. Now he has some experience with nursing school so at the next school interviews he can ask some intelligent questions about what kind of help is available to students who might be having problems getting through HESI testing. It's unfortunate that this happened, but don't think that the experience doesn't have it's positive attributes.

Epona · May 9, 2007

Hi. I am a new RN student just finishing my 1st semester. YES. It is VERY HARD. Looks like I will pass. I know several who are not passing and will be put out of the program.

I can relate to what you are saying that if nurses are needed so badly, why are schools so quick to put folks out who really want to do it. I am with you there. Does not make a lot of sense.

I also believe folks think RN school is going to be easy. Not all folks, but some. I did not think it was going to be a walk in the park, but I was blown away by the difficulty of the study. LOTS to know. Not really hard, but a TON of info. to know. RN shool is tough. A lot tougher then I thought. I heard an expression once and it is true "Nursing school is like boot camp for your brain." Bingo. Absolutely.

Also... for the most part community colleges are a lot easier then university studies. I got straight A's in all my community college courses, but when I went to a well rated academic university I busted tail to get B's. A LOT harder. So just because he got great grades in community college, does not mean it will turn out the same at a university. It depends on the university's academic level AND RN school is tough anyway. So add those two factors in and I can see where perhaps he got the lower grades. It actually makes sense. And... when he asks for help and does not get it... LOOK AROUND. I asked for help from three professors and never got any help. Finally on the fourth attempt, I got some help. If one does not help him, search for another. You WILL eventually find someone to help.

I would not give up yet. He can try at another school. He knows now that it's a tough road, but dedication and perserverance pay off.

Good luck!!

Montessori Mommy · May 9, 2007

I just finished nursing school yesterday, and I have to say I worked harder for that than anything else in my life! My previous Bachelor's degree was a walk in the park compared to an Associate's in Nursing. Our school has a passing grade requirement of 80%. We started the two year program with 27 students, and will graduate with 14.

There is a reason for the strict requirements: Nurses hold their patients' lives in their hands. Nurses are not mindless people who follow orders left by physicians. We assess and care for patients when nobody else is around and alert MDs to important changes. We are also the final line of protection from errors by others - pharmacy, doctors, etc. If you are in the hospital, it's as important to have great nureses as to have great doctors.

You'd never hear anyone complain that a medical school is too demanding of its students, would you??!

jjjoy, LPN · May 9, 2007

It's not about whether or not it's demanding. Of course, it's demanding. It's about first trying to help students succeed before cutting them out. If there's some kind of one-shot test to make or break it without the opportunity for a retake, then there should be pre-tests or practice tests. A student should know that they're on the line for awhile and have clear expectations of what they need to accomplish. If they can't pull up their performance, then they will be dropped, but they will have had a chance to stay in the program.

Think of it this way, what if every nurse were fired as soon as they made their first med error? Of course, nurses should do everything possible to avoid such errors, but they're human and mistakes happen. One mistake doesn't mean the person is a bad nurse. What's important is that it's quickly acknowledged and properly remediated. However, a pattern of mistakes in the face of clear warnings warrants termination.

So a student who performs poorly on one test should be clearly warned that they are in danger of failing and given an opportunity to improve their performance.

Certainly, nurses need more than academic skills, however, I do think a school should question its pass/fail policy when a student who has historically performed very well suddenly can't pass their introductory level course. I personally found nursing tests difficult, not because of the vast amount of material covered but because the questions were often vague with lots of room for interpretation. I had to develop very different studying and test-taking skills for nursing school. In most multiple choice tests, there is a definite right answer, though you may have to really understand the subject thoroughly to figure out which one is right. Nursing tests work on what's the best choice of those offered, given that the information provided is usually incomplete. The only positive I can say about that is that in real world nursing, things aren't always clear cut either.

CraigP · May 9, 2007

I have a question to all nursing students....
Well to make a somewhat long story short, he is a very bright kid who left the community college with a 3.75 GPA and transferred to the university. He went there for his first semester just to establish himself there prior to getting into the nursing program. Well here comes that bad part, he is getting dropped his very first semester of nursing school. This particular college changed it's GPA average from 2.5 to 2.75, we'll he's getting a 2.71 and is out.

Let me get this straight - he was accepted into the nursing program when the GPA requirement to continue was 2.5, earned a 2.71, then they changed the requirement to 2.75 and would not allow him to go on to the second semester?

If so, talk to the dean. Every program I know states that the graduation requirements are set by the year you enter the program. If the college catalog stated 2.5 when he was accepted into the program then it stays 2.5 FOR HIS CLASS until they graduate.

-Craig

Lisa CCU RN, RN · May 9, 2007

I'm confused. He had a 3.75, then he got all the way down to a 2.71 in one semester? Is that cumulative or the semester GPA? Is he is the nursing program or not?

Please clear this up.

WDWpixieRN, RN · May 9, 2007

I was curious about how a 3.75 GPA student dropped to a 2.71 in his first semester at a university? I'm guessing that's for the course load he took while he was there, but what the heck happened? I would be very concerned about what appears to be a change in work ethic or something?!?!

I agree that he needs to check in to the change and when it occurred...most schools do grandfather you in as they are bound by the terms of the course catalog at the time you registered....worth following up...

Also, there are thousands of schools across America....I don't know where in IL you are, but here in the St. Louis area, we have at least 6 or 8 programs that I am aware of. Your brother is still very young; he has a lot of opportunities to continue on this path if it's truly what he wants to do.

Also... for the most part community colleges are a lot easier then university studies.

I know this topic has been debated a number of times on these threads, but that's a rather unfair generalization to make and not necessarily true of "most" CC's. I graduated from a local CC and went on to a very prestigious, private college here in town. I could've have missed most lectures and stood on my head in the quad for a lot of those classes and still graduated with honors. Not so at the CC. And many others have posted similar experiences.

Tweety, BSN, RN · May 9, 2007

Nursing demands above average to excellent people to pass NCLEX RN. I've seen three people flunk HESI their first time and one even took three times to pass. Guess what? All three flunked NCLEX as well. Do we want to send people through school who don't have what it takes to pass NCLEX?

I do think good hardworking intelligent people are indeed being kicked out and nursing is the worse for it. But there has to be a cut off. If the cut off is 2.75, then it has to stay 2.75 without exception.

Best wishes.

land64shark · May 9, 2007

Here's what I've noticed. The students that barely passed the first semester, didn't pass level 2. Those that re-took level 2 barely passed or didn't make it through level 3. I've only just finished level 3 myself, so that's as far as I know. There seems to be a theme here. If it's really hard in the beginning, it doesn't get any easier. I know a girl that repeated levels 1 and 2 and was borderline for passing level 3. She said if she failed level 3, she would give up because she's already spent too much time away from her kids. (I don't know if she passed or not.) I can't imagine putting in so much time, effort and money and not getting the end prize. But really, what are her chances of passing the N-CLEX even if she does scrape through?