Is this typical of a nursing school? Arbitrary failings, and discrimination

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In my school a fairly large number of students, including me, have been failed in our clinical courses by arbitrary decisions made by instructors. By "arbitrary decisions" I mean that the instructors are given unrestricted power to fail students without the use of predetermined standards.

In addition, these decisions seem to affect males disproportionately. This is just based on my observations, not statistics, but males appear to make up 10-20% of the students at the school while more than 90% of those failed in these arbitrary decisions are men.

I'm pretty sure gender discrimination is at work here, particularly considering that this school decides which students to admit purely based on academic standards (meaning that the disproportionate number of men being failed cannot be explained away by suggesting that men are simply weaker than women, academically speaking.) All students at this school have about a 4.0 GPA at the start of the program.

In my own experience, the instructor who failed me was very unprofessional, rude, and nasty towards me. This behavior started literally on day one, which I think disproves any possible claim that her ill will towards me was based on anything other than some sort of prejudice. She proceeded to seek out opportunities to misrepresent events in order to make me look bad, presumably so she could build a case against me to fail me.

As an example, on the paperwork with which she officially failed me in the course she vaguely stated that she had a conversation with the RN I was working with that led her to the conclusion that I "lacked initiative." What is interesting is that she made that same accusation to me in person moments after the conversation in question (which I estimate lasted about 15 seconds.) When she made the accusation to me in person, I asked her to clarify what exactly she was basing this assumption on, and she stated that the conclusion that I "lacked initiative" was based on the fact that it had come up in this conversation with the RN that a procedure had been done on my patient and that the RN had done the procedure instead of me.

I only had one RN that I was working with that day, I only had one patient that day, and my patient only had one procedure. At the time of that procedure, the RN asked the patient, "Would you rather have a female [the RN] perform this procedure instead of a male [me]?" And the patient said, "Sure. I guess I'd prefer a female." So this was an example of explicit gender discrimination that was actually cited as a reason for my instructor failing me.

I find the arbitrary nature of these decisions strange. These decisions are made against people who have invested years of their time and thousands of dollars of their money and against people who have succeeded at every step of the way in their educational career, and it is odd to me that all of their hard work can be thrown away purely based upon what appears to be an individual's personal dislike of them.

Can anyone relate to these kinds of experiences? Is this typical of nursing schools?


Going out on a limb here, but did you ever argue like this with your instructor? Perhaps she dislikes that sort of personality :cool:

OP said he had problems with the instructor from day one. it's in the original post..

Now, politics.. yes, it is VERY important in this day and age. "Politics" has gotten many nurses disciplined and even fired.

Perhaps, when you noticed on day one that the atmosphere was not ideal with your instructor, if you had made an appointment

to speak to her about her expectations, etc. that you would have had a more equitable time of it. As for your question regarding arbitrary decisions made by instructors in nursing school, remember that all schools are not the same, all instructors are human, and

nursing school is very difficult. Perhaps the instructor spoke with the nurse that you worked with, and received input that would have made the decision less arbitrary. If, in fact, the instructor did give you a failing grade simply for the omitted procedure, that would certainly have been unfair.

I think, though, that maybe you both began on the wrong foot and continued in a downward spiral. I am sorry that you had to go through this.

I wish you the best..

Ok so you want us all to say yes poor thing you were wrongly dropped from your program. Your instructor is the big bad wolf out to get you because your a guy/black/blue/orange or whatever else your rambling about.

but you wrote this in your original post.

Which lead many to understand that this incident you speak of is not the only run in with the big bad wolf. Quit evading. Where's the rest of your story?

This thread is quite interesting.

The only example from my situation that was mentioned by me was identified by word as an, "example."

I never stated, "This is every detail of my situation."

In order to appease you, let me also share this: my instructor also expressed that at one point she saw me from a distance "sitting at a computer."

I was charting.

I hope that helps you to feel better about my side of the story since I've now expressed two details of my particular situation, even though the thread (based on the title of the thread and my original post) is about the general practices of the school, and I never asked anyone to say my instructor was wrong in failing me.

This thread was never about my instructor.

The fact that you are pretending it is about one situation says something about you lot.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.
If getting along with people was relevant to my situation, as was not stated by either me or my instructor, but you apparently have the right to assume and retroactively insert that judgment against me in a situation you don't know anything about . . . why didn't my instructor state a lack of "ability to get along with people"? as a reason for failing me.

Interesting oversight on her part . . . another clue that makes me question whether or not "political skills" are the true fundamental skill of nursing as you are suggesting.

You don't get it do you? Of course she's not going to list that as a reason. It's an unspoken part of learning to be a nurse. It's really quite simple. **** off your instructor and she will make life very difficult for you.It works the same with managers and charge nurses.And it's like that in other jobs too.

OP said he had problems with the instructor from day one. it's in the original post..

Now, politics.. yes, it is VERY important in this day and age. "Politics" has gotten many nurses disciplined and even fired.

Perhaps, when you noticed on day one that the atmosphere was not ideal with your instructor, if you had made an appointment

to speak to her about her expectations, etc. that you would have had a more equitable time of it. As for your question regarding arbitrary decisions made by instructors in nursing school, remember that all schools are not the same, all instructors are human, and

nursing school is very difficult. Perhaps the instructor spoke with the nurse that you worked with, and received input that would have made the decision less arbitrary. If, in fact, the instructor did give you a failing grade simply for the omitted procedure, that would certainly have been unfair.

I think, though, that maybe you both began on the wrong foot and continued in a downward spiral. I am sorry that you had to go through this.

I wish you the best..

I wasn't really trying to make a thread about my particular situation, but since you asked about it particularly, I had asked my instructor a number of specific questions about her expectations regarding particular things, and she dismissed my questions every time insulting me personally.

Hannibal Lector, what if I did argue with my instructor? Which I can't say I did. But if I had, would that be grounds to sabotage my career? The fact that I expressed that I did not agree with my nursing school instructor? That does not seem reasonable to me.

Specializes in Acute Care, Rehab, Palliative.

Hannibal Lector, what if I did argue with my instructor? Which I can't say I did. But if I had, would that be grounds to sabotage my career? The fact that I expressed that I did not agree with my nursing schoolarrow-10x10.png instructor? That does not seem reasonable to me.

You are the STUDENT. They are the INSTRUCTOR. You don't argue. You be quiet and listen. Take notes. You do as you are told.It's not your place to disagree.and yes it will end your career pretty quickly if you choose to argue.How reasonable is it to argue with the person that is trying to teach you? They are experienced and have a license. You don't.

You don't get it do you? Of course she's not going to list that as a reason. It's an unspoken part of learning to be a nurse. It's really quite simple. **** off your instructor and she will make life very difficult for you.It works the same with managers and charge nurses.And it's like that in other jobs too.

What? Why would she mention the procedure that was mentioned in the original post but not mention the inability to get along with people if that was a real reason? Is she afraid that students will complain of discrimination against people who don't get along with other people?

That's stupid.

What's interesting is your willingness to become hostile towards me without knowing the details of my situation. I find it very odd.

There is a word for people who make strong negative opinions about other people without knowing the details of their situation.

Hannibal Lector, what if I did argue with my instructor? Which I can't say I did. But if I had, would that be grounds to sabotage my career? The fact that I expressed that I did not agree with my nursing schoolarrow-10x10.png instructor? That does not seem reasonable to me.

You are the STUDENT. They are the INSTRUCTOR. You don't argue. You be quiet and listen. Take notes. You do as you are told.It's not your place to disagree.and yes it will end your career pretty quickly if you choose to argue.How reasonable is it to argue with the person that is trying to teach you? They are experienced and have a license. You don't.

So your whole judgement against me is that I should have rolled-over in some imaginary situation that never occurred where my instructor was falsely accusing me of something and I spoke-up and argued against what she was saying.

Even if that was a real situation, and not just something you imagined, it would not be a moral justification for taking action against me.

Specializes in Cath/EP lab, CCU, Cardiac stepdown.
I find everyone's responses to be very disturbing as a whole. I was not expecting that response when I suggested 'what if a female medical student was expelled because a male patient refused to work with a female doctor.' And the answer, that nobody disagreed with, was that it would be totally acceptable for a female medical student to be kicked out of medical school because one male patient refused to work with a female doctor. Apparently, it would be "ridiculous" for that medical student to have a problem with that decision. She should just move on with her life and accept that she wasn't cut out to be a doctor.

I very much doubt that anybody would be okay with that. I certainly would not.

But with my case, not only is it okay that the gender issue was specifically stated as a reason for my "failure," but in addition, it is obvious that there are all kinds of things that I'm obviously not mentioning that justify my failure.

Everyone in this discussion is trying to avoid what is actually being talked about by saying childish things like, "The patient can refuse a male nurse if she wants." OKAY. Nobody ever said a patient can't refuse a male nurse, or a black nurse, or a gay nurse. Whatever the patient wants. I never said the patient can't do that. I never said the patient failed me for "gender discrimination." That has never had anything to do with what I have been saying, and it is ridiculous to suggest that because I think it is wrong for an instructor to fail a student for being disallowed from a procedure due to his gender that that must mean that I think patients have no right to choose the gender of their patient.

The question is whether it is okay to fail a nursing student based on a procedure that was not performed due to the patient preferring female over male. Or a straight over a gay. Or a white over a black.

You can't say it is okay for a school to make a decision even partly based on these distinctions unless you think it is okay to say, "men shouldn't be nurses," "blacks shouldn't be nurses," "gays shouldn't be nurses."

Anyway, I think everyone's responses as a whole are very disturbing.

Op I actually agreed with you, that if that was the only reason for your failure then it is wrong. Like some people stated I believe that it is perfectly reasonable for a patient to refuse care based on their own preferences, however I didn't say that sexism by your professor is ok, so to interpret it that way and call it disturbing is kind of strong.

As I tried to say gently, you should be convening a committee hearing in regards to the charge of "lacking initiative" with the higher ups of the nursing department rather than trying to say it is definitely a gender issue.

It will go something like this hopefully:

You: I would like to know why I was given a failing grade, I believe that it is necessary to review it as I felt that I was treated unfairly.

Obviously the professor can't say she failed you because you are a male, so I would assume she will say something like

Professor: you were failed because you lacked initiative and failed to complete the procedure on a female patient.

You: I was unable to complete the procedure because the patient was uncomfortable with a male nurse and explicitly requested a female nurse. Since we are taught to respect the patients wishes and are not allowed to perform care against the wishes of the patient,I complied.

If you were indeed failed because of that only, then having a conversation like this should adequately show that you were failed unjustly. If your professor brings up other issues, which we wouldn't know about as we have only had your limited side of the story, then that is another matter.

Anywho good luck and I don't know if this was intentional or if you even realized it but my advice is to do your best in not portraying a passive aggressive attitude in both this thread and in school(if you do) because it can cause a bad impression and be seen as insubordination/disrespect.

Sorry, Kylam; I didn't mean that literally "everyone's" posts were disturbing. I simply was referring to what I saw as the consensus in the thread.

I have tried arguing my case with the school and they have not listened, much like many people in this thread have not listened. It seems it is much easier to dismiss a student and make the assumption that any flaws in their accuser's story is somehow the student's fault.

As I tried to imply in the original post (by identifying that brief story as an example of my instructor's behavior,) this was an example of the kinds of things my instructor brought against me. I do not wish to list every detail as it is a waste of time. As I stated in my original post, my instructor tried to find excuses to misrepresent things that happened to make me look bad. I'm not going to explain every detail of my situation. That would be silly, and my intention was never to have a whole conversation about my particular case.

Whatever I say, people are going to allude to the unmentioned aspects of my situation that they assume prove my guilt. Which in turn proves their own prejudice against me. As I mentioned to the first poster, it is reasonable to approach a stranger's story like this with skepticism. But making the assumption that a story like this is a lie told by a crappy nursing student who deserved to be failed at the very least and probably should be imprisoned for his actions is just a strange perspective. One that should be evaluated, especially since the issues of discrimination are brought up.

By the way, not trying to start yet another argument (I honestly am not trying to have arguments with anyone,) but what do you mean by passive-aggressive attitude? I felt like I was aggressive only where I needed to be and passive-aggressive nowhere, but I'd like to know what you meant by that. Thanks.

This is my experience after first semester of nursing school, and talking to other students about the various clinical instructors: some of these ladies are thoroughly insane. Numerous members of my cohorts discussed things like them being sugar and nice in person and then when the student reviews come in, it's all these nasty remarks about us that was never previously discussed with us. I personally thought I was doing fine in my clinical, and then on my review my instructor put that I was tardy - I was "late" once - and I put late in quotation marks because I called to say I was coming late due to traffic, which is what we're supposed to do when we're running late. I was so stunned to see that in writing, it made me look like I was some habitual late runner when that wasn't true at all. Thankfully I passed clinical, but I couldn't believe she wrote that about me, it's like she had nothing else to complain about and zero'd in on something because they know we're not perfect so there has to be something to be improved upon. This semester, and from here on out, my goal is to lay low, yes m'aam to everything they tell me, and just get out of the program.

Specializes in critical care.
So . . . usually it is the student's fault for not realizing what (besides being a good nurse) the instructor is looking for. If the student is doing everything that is asked of him or her and being a good nurse and there is something "missing" because they lack some vague "political skills" than that means that their instructor is the one who should get fired. Political skills isn't part of nursing.

Yes, it is the student's responsibility to know what the instructor wants.

And political skills ARE part of nursing. How do you expect to effectively engage a patient or your boss?

To respond to your previous post, which I did not quote, again - you are completely misunderstanding what we are saying. Not one single one of us has said the patient failed you, or that being failed BY YOUR INSTRUCTOR for being male is appropriate. Most of us have tried to answer your question about whether it is typical to have (what feels like) arbitrary grading in nursing school, and we have also given feedback on our own feelings of that. If you are feeling like we have said differently, again, you are taking what we are saying incorrectly.

Step away from the interwebs and take a time out for the sake of simply coming back with a fresh mind and reading more objectively.

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