I'm not going to lie... - page 7

by StudentOfHealing

9,358 Views | 134 Comments

Some people genuinely annoy me on here, I'm ALL for furthering education but dreading those of us who choose to start with our ADN is complete disrespect. Had my mother been healthier (she has RA and her pain is becoming... Read More


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    nothing wrong with being the underdog and starting from the bottom to the top! Good luck pursuing your nursing career!
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    Boston, if you'd like to know the truth, the thought never occurred to me to consider the level of education of the RNs I experience when I, myself, get nursing care. Lets consider this, though. I don't know what the programs are like anywhere else, only the ones local to me. I feel confident that our local ADNs do adequate adequate skills. Perhaps my BSN will give me a larger amount of theory not necessarily directly related to hands on nursing care, and maybe it will give me more leadership guidance (we actually have a whole semester of leadership) which will be great from a management perspective. I do believe, though, when it comes to hands-on care, we're both trained adequately and maybe even to the same level of expertise. I have no reason to doubt my RN at my own bedside, regardless of her degree. Isn't that, to a degree (pardon the pun), what matters most? That the patient receive adequate care?

    To be honest, in my own perfect world, we would all be given thorough education regardless of the entry level for practice, and after graduation, there would be a whole world of residency programs to break us in and take us off our wobbly toddler legs so that when we are practicing with more autonomy, we do so with confidence. I think it's the support we receive AFTER graduation that ultimately depends on how good we are in practice. We can all read books, we can all spit out their information, we can all type up care plans, we can all read drug books, and so on. But can we practice nursing? I'd give a kidney to land a residency program after graduation so that I would be able to focus on NURSING, rather than classwork, while still having a person looking over my shoulder a little. But that's a topic for eleventy million OTHER threads.
    heartsgal and soxgirl2008 like this.
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    I agree the financial part of the equation is frustrating and it is intimately connected to the issue.

    It drives me nuts that NPs accrue about half the debt as MD/DOs yet make a quarter of the money and pay 8 times the interest. That interest is related to the high default rate which is related to the "for-profit" schools and the cycle goes round and round.

    RN (especially BSN) education isn't cheap; neither is hiring a nurse. Nurses need to maintain their value. If nurses don't stay up with the education curve, employers will be looking to hire MA and other techs to do nursing jobs
    Last edit by BostonFNP on Feb 9, '13
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    Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

    Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.
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    Quote from BostonFNP
    Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

    Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.
    I'm curious what makes you say that new grad BSNs are generally in a better position to practice? I've heard of studies that say starting out ADNs do better in the 1st year out of school, but after a year their BSN counterparts are at the same level. I can't speak for all nursing programs, but my ADN program does have more clinical experience than the local BSN program. The BSN program concentrates more on research, theory and leadership. Which I think down the road helps you, but right off the bat starting out as a new grad most BSNs are not worried about perfecting their leadership skills. BSNs are more prepared for public health, but most new grads don't start out in public health. ADN nurses are prepared in school for bedside nursing. Yes, BSNs are as well, but ADN programs put more emphasis on it than BSN programs which are also teaching research, leadership, and public health. I don't see how right out of the gate a BSN is that much more prepared than an ADN for bedside nursing, considering bedside nursing is the main focus of ADN programs.

    Managers at my hospital have even said that they often prefer ADN new grads because they come into work with more clinical experience under their belt. However, part of that could be that many of the ADN students have worked in healthcare all through school, while many of the BSN students don't have any healthcare experience. However, I work with a BSN nurse who said she felt much less prepared in her first year of nursing compared to her ADN counterparts because she only had one semester of med/surg, while her ADN co workers had 2-3 semesters. However, I understand BSN programs differ and some programs have better clinical experience than others.
    Jill2Shay likes this.
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    Quote from BostonFNP
    Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

    Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.
    I can't fairly answer that, or argue with any of what you've said, either. I'm afraid I'm way too new to the world of nursing to have a good opinion worth backing up. I think I'm nervous about accelerated programs, whether ADN or BSN. I'm struggling with the idea that in just under 3 more semesters, my school is going to say that I'm adequately prepared to give nursing care. I couldn't imagine having a BSN in 3 total semesters. We have a second degree accelerated program at my school that is only 3 semesters. How can someone learn everything so fast? They do work harder and have more clinical time per semester, but have you ever tried to pour milk into a bowl too fast? It all spills out. I already feel like that's happening in my 4 semester program.
  7. 0
    Quote from ixchel
    I can't fairly answer that, or argue with any of what you've said, either. I'm afraid I'm way too new to the world of nursing to have a good opinion worth backing up. I think I'm nervous about accelerated programs, whether ADN or BSN. I'm struggling with the idea that in just under 3 more semesters, my school is going to say that I'm adequately prepared to give nursing care. I couldn't imagine having a BSN in 3 total semesters. We have a second degree accelerated program at my school that is only 3 semesters. How can someone learn everything so fast? They do work harder and have more clinical time per semester, but have you ever tried to pour milk into a bowl too fast? It all spills out. I already feel like that's happening in my 4 semester program.
    couldn't agree more with this, the idea of a 15 months accelerated BSN program is just pure absurdity, how can one retain all that knowledge in such a short period and do these programs cover all the courses in a traditional 4 year program.?
  8. 0
    Thank you for posting this and using your voice. I am sure it has inspired others like it inspired me to speak up. I am to working on my ADN for similar reasons to yours, and personal. I know that nursing school at all levels is a challenge and anyway you go about it we are on on the same journey to get to the same place. I choose to do my adn at a technical college so I can focus on one part at a time as I am working on it. I get caught up in the whole picture and loose sight of today. I am still in the pre nursing phase but proud of where I am and dont look back. We are all going to make amazing nurses and offer my support and prayers as we go through our journeys. Or in the way I am known for... We got this!
  9. 1
    Quote from soxgirl2008
    I'm curious what makes you say that new grad BSNs are generally in a better position to practice? I've heard of studies that say starting out ADNs do better in the 1st year out of school, but after a year their BSN counterparts are at the same level.

    Yes, BSNs are as well, but ADN programs put more emphasis on it than BSN programs which are also teaching research, leadership, and public health.
    It sounds like you have excellent ADN programs in your area and have some word-of-mouth evidence of them being better than the local BSN program. If you can cite some of those studies I would love to read them over and increase my knowledge. As far as what makes me say Bachelors-prepared RNs are more prepared to practice to the full extent of their practice: they have invested in themselves in both knowledge and clinical skills.

    Again for nursing, as a whole, research, leadership, and public health are very important to "nursing", as well as being important at the bedside. We are in a rapidly changing and advancing healthcare field. If nursing doesn't adapt its approach, it will fall behind other disciplines.

    There is far more to nursing than clinical skills. With some experience, you may begin to see an embrace this. We need RNs to lead CNAs and educate patients and practitioners. We need RNs to research outcome and evidence-based practice. We need RNs in the community combating the growing metabolic syndrome epidemic in this country. We need RNs that have committed to a lifetime of continued learning to improve their practice and the practice of those around them. Nursing is much more than putting in a foley or placing an IV. Anyone can learn those skills and learn them quickly; real nursing is the nursing process before, during, and after those clinical skills.
    Ackeem likes this.
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    Quote from soxgirl2008

    I can't speak for all nursing programs, but my ADN program does have more clinical experience than the local BSN program.
    This is mythology, or rather, part of the larger mythology ADNs have constructed for themselves.

    The clinical hours required to sit for the NCLEX are dictated by the SBON. They are the same for both ADNs and BSNs, and they can't be otherwise.

    Another favorite piece of this mythology is the idea you also repeat that ADNs are better at "bedside nursing" than BSNs. Not only is this not true, it's not even quantifiable (but then neither is that other idea that ADNs start faster but BSNs catch up in a year).

    It's all nonsense.
    PureLifeRN likes this.


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