ethics lecture rant (sensitive topic) - page 7

Today our lecture was on ethics and values in nursing care. We were discussing abortions and our teacher was explaining to us that we can refuse to care for a patient if say they are in the hospital... Read More

  1. by   Tweety
    Quote from targa
    I simply commented on something that I have observed... poor writing skills. Nurses ought to know how to write, concisely and precisely, without leading a reader to believe that the writer is foolish. But I guess I'm asking too much.
    Points well taken.

    When it counts, I am able to do all those things. But for me and me alone, I'd like to say that yes, you are indeed asking to much as it pertains to the bb. Out in real life, in charting, in paper writing, in communication with others, no you're not asking too much. Try not to judge me okay.
    Last edit by Tweety on Feb 10, '05
  2. by   targa
    Your points are also well-taken, 3rdShiftGuy. It wasn't my point to judge anyone. I just get slightly annoyed when ridiculed, and tend to respond with perhaps too much gusto.

    When I attended college, several of my profs would use a spelling or grammatical error as occasion to downgrade a paper an entire letter grade. This was before the advent of word processors and spell-checks. I became used to "perfection" in writing. Later, in my law practice, I would cringe when I saw errors committed by opposing counsel, who supposedly knew how to write well.

    My observation about posters on this BB were more in the way of confirming what I've read in the papers: that young students today are not being taught how to write. I realize this is a BB... but some of the things I've read here give me real pause... and as you agree with me on the nurse's need for superlative on-the-job writing skills, I just had to comment. I didn't realize that this BB would be so "politically correct", i.e., everyone seems so afraid that they'll "offend" someone. My skin is thick, however, and I've been called worse things than "rude".

    Best regards to you...
  3. by   bluesky
    Quote from targa
    Perhaps you're correct, Bluesky. After all, my knowledge to date regarding ICUs comes from my experience of suing a hospital and its ICU nurses over a botched DNR order, confusion over which led to the death of my clients' family member... and all because one nurse had a problem with communication. Granted, that case involved a little more than poor grammar, but I think you get my drift. Wow, that was a great $ettlement.

    You missed my point (which contained not a whiff of contempt, and certainly cannot be called a diatribe)... but I won't belabor the issue. I simply commented on something that I have observed... poor writing skills. Nurses ought to know how to write, concisely and precisely, without leading a reader to believe that the writer is foolish. But I guess I'm asking too much.
    I didn't miss your point. I merely chose to convey that no one is going to consider your point if it is delivered in such a judgmental, intolerant fashion.

    I understand that it was not your intention to sound contemptuous or rude. However, you made several disparaging remarks which most of the readers here interpreted as such.

    So, specifically, was the DNR botched due to poor spelling or grammar? If grammar or spelling was not directly at the root of the communication error then your argument is non-sequitur, I believe.

    Your point is, roughly, "poor grammar and spelling (specific) contribute to poor communication (general)... here is an example of how poor communication led to a bad patient outcome (DNR story) therefore poor grammar and spelling can lead to poor patient outcomes".

    I was actually thinking about going into human rights law myself but if this is the type of discourse I can expect maybe second thoughts are in order! :stone
  4. by   Tweety
    Quote from targa
    My skin is thick, however, and I've been called worse things than "rude".

    Best regards to you...

    Oh yes, ya gotta have thick skin to hang around this bunch that's for sure.

    I think you were merely stating how you feel, what your opinion is, and you weren't rude about it. (I have thick skins as well and my interpretation of rudeness obviously isn't what others is.) I agree our educational system lets us down in this area. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

    Anyway, I hope I don't make you cringe to much with my posts. I know I do a lot of people, because you're not the first person to have ever made the observations you have.

    Best regards to you too! Woot!
  5. by   Spidey's mom
    Tweety - ah, there you go being reasonable again.

    I think there is a bit of a difference (what is the name of this thread again?) . . . between typos and some of the grammar mistakes I've noticed.

    I do work with some staff who use double negatives and say "orientate", which I know is a word and is used by folks in other countries, but sounds odd here.

    Back to the topic though - I think Tweety's points are well-taken. Where I work, we work as a team and if someone has just had enough of one particular patient, we trade off. If someone was raped and we are taking care of a rapist and that person requests not to have that patient, we accomodate them. Just seems reasonable to me.

    steph
  6. by   bluesky
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    Oh yes, ya gotta have thick skin to hang around this bunch that's for sure.

    I think you were merely stating how you feel, what your opinion is, and you weren't rude about it. (I have thick skins as well and my interpretation of rudeness obviously isn't what others is.) I agree our educational system lets us down in this area. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

    Anyway, I hope I don't make you cringe to much with my posts. I know I do a lot of people, because you're not the first person to have ever made the observations you have.

    Best regards to you too! Woot!
    Next time you make a joke I'll refer to "your lame attempt at humor" and that won't be rude at all then, eh?
  7. by   fergus51
    I hate the word "orientate"! Of course, I get teased at work for saying "tuque", so who am I to judge?
  8. by   JVanRN
    I hate the word "irregardless" Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! and "Orientate" but i'm confused what is "tuque"?
  9. by   fergus51
    Tuque is the wool hat you wear in the winter.
  10. by   targa
    Quote from bluesky
    I didn't miss your point. I merely chose to convey that no one is going to consider your point if it is delivered in such a judgmental, intolerant fashion.

    I understand that it was not your intention to sound contemptuous or rude. However, you made several disparaging remarks which most of the readers here interpreted as such.

    So, specifically, was the DNR botched due to poor spelling or grammar? If grammar or spelling was not directly at the root of the communication error then your argument is non-sequitur, I believe.

    Your point is, roughly, "poor grammar and spelling (specific) contribute to poor communication (general)... here is an example of how poor communication led to a bad patient outcome (DNR story) therefore poor grammar and spelling can lead to poor patient outcomes".

    I was actually thinking about going into human rights law myself but if this is the type of discourse I can expect maybe second thoughts are in order! :stone
    Well, it seems some clouds have crept into Bluesky's sunny disposition.

    It seems you're the only one, Blue, who believes that my opinion was delivered in a "judgmental, intolerant" fashion. And I didn't know you spoke for all of the people who have viewed this thread (more than 1700 views at last count). But I digress....

    As for the DNR case... there is a confidentiality order (sought by the hospital), so I must be extremely vague, but it involved poor syntax (the proper arrangement of words) on the part of one nurse, which led another nurse to conclude something that wasn't true, with a healthy dose of other errors throw in for good measure, which led to the patient being allowed to expire. I would love to write exactly what was written, which started the chain of events, but I would be violating the Rules of Professional Conduct by doing so, so I won't. So yes... it was grammatical, in the beginning.

    As for your getting a law degree (perhaps you have one already) and practicing "human rights law" (and maybe you mean "civil rights law"), all I can say is... if you think doctors are pompous, arrogant, and power-mad, then you've never met a federal judge. And wait til you meet your opposing counsel... LOL... you have no idea what you're getting yourself into.
  11. by   JVanRN
    Quote from fergus51
    Tuque is the wool hat you wear in the winter.
    Oh okay. No need for that down here so I guess I wouln't know what that meant. Is that a Canadian word or something? (arent' you canadian?) anyways alot of canadian nurses here refer to jackets as parkas...i think that is kind of funny. I'm not knocking Canadian people at all so please no one take it that way. (My mom herself was born and raised in Quebec...so I have lots of family up there) Anyway I'm waaaayyyy of topic here. Sorry...considering I sorta said somthing semi rude to Targa for posting off topic.
  12. by   fergus51
    I think it is a Canadianism. I have yet to meet an American who knew what it meant. I assume it was a french word, so your mom would probably know what it meant
  13. by   Ted
    a reminder:

    especially during heated or "sensative" discussions, please keep the focus on the topic and not your fellow bulletin board member. personal attacks are not tolerated on this bulletin board.

    the allnurses.com staff

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