"For-profit" schools... As bad as they say? - page 2

I was on another thread, and someone stated that they believe the reason someone hasn't passed their NCLEX was due to the fact that they must have gone to a for-profit school... Are they really as... Read More

  1. by   KJM-RN
    I would be hesitant to go to a school that is not yet accredited. If the accreditation falls through, you could have issues sitting for the NCLEX or finding a job.
  2. by   zoe92
    I think you should really consider the price of the school... Because the for profits by me are not worth that money at all. Also, look at the attrition rate. How many students start the nursing school & don't graduate?
  3. by   TheCommuter
    I attended an LVN program at a nonprofit trade school. A few years later I attended an RN completion program at a private for-profit trade school.

    I passed the NCLEX-PN on my first attempt in 2005 and passed the NCLEX-RN on my very first attempt in the spring of 2010, so passing NCLEX was not an issue for me. However, a third of the classmates in my RN bridge cohort failed NCLEX on their first attempts.

    I was able to secure employment very soon after receiving my temporary license, but this was due to my previous work experience in addition to having inside connections. There's a saying: it's not about what you know; it's about who you know.

    In addition, I was not picky about where I wanted to work, so I was willing to start in LTC/nursing homes when other new grads would have turned their noses up at any job outside the hospital. If you refuse job offers in LTC, home health, hospice, clinics, or psych while waiting around for the exalted acute care hospital job, you might be unemployed for a year or longer in certain cities. Beggars cannot be choosers in a slow economy.
  4. by   TheCommuter
    Quote from kjm84
    I would be hesitant to go to a school that is not yet accredited. If the accreditation falls through, you could have issues sitting for the NCLEX or finding a job.
    Contrary to popular belief, nursing schools do not need to be accredited. Accreditation is a purely voluntary process that the school undergoes to ensure a level of quality in the education they provide to their students. Accreditation of a nursing program is not mandatory or required.

    Nursing programs only need to be approved to operate by the state board of nursing. If the school is approved to operate, graduates are eligible to take NCLEX and attain nursing licensure just like the graduates of accredited schools.

    Graduates of unaccredited nursing schools run into problems with other areas, such as furthering their education and securing employment with certain entities. Government employers such as federal prisons, the VA, and the Department of Defense will not hire RNs who graduated from unaccredited schools. Many RN-to-BSN and RN-to-MSN programs will not accept credits earned from unaccredited nursing programs, which limits the options for pursuing higher education.
  5. by   HouTx
    There are variations in everything - education included - so it is very foolish to attempt to apply generalizations. However, there are some very clear elements that characterize commercial education as a whole. If you want to explore this, I suggest you read "College, Inc.... an excellent Frontline report available here College, Inc. | FRONTLINE | PBS

    The primary purpose of any commercial endeavor is to earn a profit - for the investors. It has been widely reported that many commercial schools spend far more on marketing than on instructor salaries.

    It may be easier to list the things that have NOT been reported in traditional academic settings: Purchasing failing schools in order to absorb their existing accreditation & programs, high-pressure "sales" tactics, paying kick-backs to "recruiters", advance-enrollment (without informing the student), 'bundling' - price for the degree rather than tuition for each course, high-pressure 'counselors' pulling out all the stops to keep students enrolled despite their personal situations/challenges, lack of faculty involvement in curriculum development, absence of meaningful faculty development . . . read the Frontline report.
  6. by   llg
    Quote from HouTx
    There are variations in everything - education included - so it is very foolish to attempt to apply generalizations. However, there are some very clear elements that characterize commercial education as a whole. If you want to explore this, I suggest you read "College, Inc.... an excellent Frontline report available here College, Inc. | FRONTLINE | PBS

    .
    That was an EXCELLENT post, HouTx, and I hope people read it ... and check out the PBS report. It makes me so sad to see students impressed by pretty buildings and shiney machines -- and falling for "sales pitches," -- and getting a lousy education at the end, along with an exessive amount of debt.
  7. by   llg
    Quote from luvnlfe,LMT
    I go to a for profit school and I am enjoying the experience so far. They just built a brand new building with top of the line learning facility. And they are renovating the remaining buildings. its a perk that most state schools cannot afford to do on a regular basis. I like knowing that I am using the most up to date technology that I will encounter in the hospital.
    New buildings and shiney technology are not what makes a good school. It's the quality of the education that matters -- and whether or not the student (and tax-paying society) is being exploited and/or abused by ridiculously high prices. That's how the unscrupulous for-profits work: They charge extremely high prices and then take that money and pocket it. They spend on "cosmetics" -- things that look shiney and new, convenient class times, etc. -- things that appeal to the uneducated consumer. The don't invest in scholarly activity or faculty that meet the higher standards of the more scholarly academic insitutions.

    Some students achieve satisfactory learning in such a place, but it is rarely at the level possible at a school whose mission is to serve the community and the student. Remember, at a for-profit school -- the fundamental mission is ALWAYS to make a profit for the owners (shareholders) even if it means compromising educational quality and/or misleading the student about their chances of graduation and career success.

    Some of my best education came in old buildings, sitting on wooden benches that were several decades old ... being taught by scholars who were well-respected in their fields. That's not what you get in a new building with an adjunct instructor who is teaching there for a bit while they look for a better job -- or from someone thrown quickly into the classroom or clinical area without a lot of prep time or teaching experience.

    The quality of the faculty and the academic standards are what matters -- not the newness of the buildings or technology.
  8. by   Esme12
    Quote from kskaggs126
    Did you post this just to make a point, or do you actually have something to say? When I say negativity, I mean people who go on threads just to bash, or who don't answer the question. so...
    I think that if you wish a true sampling of the pros and cons so that you can make the best possible decision you need to hear the good and the bad.

    There are downfalls to certain for progit school. There are some real shady operators out there and there are some states that will not accept certain school for licensure...even if you get a license in one state ....the next state may not accept your schooling......for example...California is one and New York was another. I think you need to weigh the expense of these school for some are exorbitant in their costs. It s difficult to graduate from a program then you can't find a position or take boards. It is entirely possible if you go to move your education may not meet requirements.

    For profit schools have not always behaved with the utmost honesty and integrity.

    My advice do your homework.
  9. by   DawnJ
    I go to a for-profit. They had a good pass rate, then a dip and a total re-org. The last 2 grad classes all passed the NCLEX. Everyone but 2 on the first try.

    I totally believe you get what you put in. Those who were not willing to put the time & effort in have failed out in the first 2 semesters. The rest put the time in, even if they aren't the brightest bulbs, and they get through. I think most of my class will make it through and pass the NCLEX, with the exception of one. I'd be really surprised and sad for the field if she gets a license.
  10. by   FecesOccurs
    Yeaaaah...ok aubgirl. Anyway, I went to *insert for-pofit school here* and had no problem passing state boards or finding a job BEFORE I tested for LVN as well as RN. I now work for a major national hospital in the ER. I have previously held a plethora of other nursing jobs (psych, hospice, long-term care, etc) and HR's main concern was that I had a free and clear license and that my references checked out. It's tragic that you would make such a blanket statement about us being "not prepare (sic) at all" when I'm sure you could not have possibly met every nurse who has graduated from a for-profit school.
    Last edit by FecesOccurs on May 17, '13 : Reason: The usual
  11. by   SopranoKris
    I was almost duped into attending a for-profit school with the lure of "no waiting list, start right now!". The so-called "academic advisors" were really sales people who hounded me for months after I visited their campus. After finding out their tuition was 3 times higher than a well-known Big 10 university in my area and hearing from people in the field that graduates from this program are rarely hired, program is not accredited, I dropped them from my list. I've heard story after story of folks graduating from this program, unable to pass the NCLEX, get a job or go on for further education. My goal is to go on to graduate school after the BSN, so there was no way I was going to compromise my future job prospects and future education by going to this school. Not to mention going into very HEAVY debt to boot.

    The old saying "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" comes in to play here. Yes, I could have started immediately, but at what price? It wasn't worth the risk to me.
  12. by   Esme12
    Quote from FecesOccurs
    Yeaaaah...ok aubgirl. Anyway, I went to *insert for-pofit school here* and had no problem passing state boards or finding a job BEFORE I tested for LVN as well as RN. I now work for a major national hospital in the ER. I have previously held a plethora of other nursing jobs (psych, hospice, long-term care, etc) and HR's main concern was that I had a free and clear license and that my references checked out. It's tragic that you would make such a blanket statement about us being "not prepare (sic) at all" when I'm sure you could not have possibly met every nurse who has graduated from a for-profit school.
    I don't think any one was making a blanket statement.......I think many posters were just advising her to use caution and do her homework before making a decision.

    California and several other states have found issue with some of these for profit school with concurrency issues, the science requirements (or lack thereof) and the lack of a formal pharmacology classes.
    "only those states that have explicit education requirements of concurrent theory and practicum will nurses have licensure issues.

    excelsior college new york nursing graduates have had same issue recently. see state board licensure requirements here]

    These are states having concerns over concurrent theory and practicum, so I would look at other 37 states to obtain license:

    Alabama
    Arizona
    California
    Georgia
    Illinois

    Kansas
    Louisiana
    Maryland

    north Dakota
    Oklahoma
    Vermont
    Virginia
    Washington"
    Schools I was referring to have nothing what so ever to do with the school the OP mentioned for I know nothing about Galen
    Last edit by Esme12 on May 17, '13
  13. by   KJM-RN
    Quote from TheCommuter
    Contrary to popular belief, nursing schools do not need to be accredited. Accreditation is a purely voluntary process that the school undergoes to ensure a level of quality in the education they provide to their students. Accreditation of a nursing program is not mandatory or required.

    Nursing programs only need to be approved to operate by the state board of nursing. If the school is approved to operate, graduates are eligible to take NCLEX and attain nursing licensure just like the graduates of accredited schools.

    Graduates of unaccredited nursing schools run into problems with other areas, such as furthering their education and securing employment with certain entities. Government employers such as federal prisons, the VA, and the Department of Defense will not hire RNs who graduated from unaccredited schools. Many RN-to-BSN and RN-to-MSN programs will not accept credits earned from unaccredited nursing programs, which limits the options for pursuing higher education.
    In my state, it's a longer process to take the NCLEX if your school isn't accredited. I'd be more concerned about obtaining a job though. Every hospital I have applied at (and its a lot) requires a person to have graduated from an accredited school. I'm sure there are places that will take you, but if you have the option of going to an accredited school it'd be a much better idea.

    The other issue others have brought up, is the issue of credits transferring in the future.

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