Would Jesus be employable - page 8
Lets say Jesus Christ was on earth today ,he went to school and became a nurse,and had the same attitude towards life that he ,apparently had 2000 years ago. Would he be employable? Or would he make... Read More
Nov 9, '02rncountry,lets be sure to add that the belief in the doctrine of the trinity is not what is fundamental to being a christian or christianity,christianity is not about doctrines fundamentally
Nov 9, '02Actually, ohbet, they are. Church doctrines form the basis for the Christian religion, much the same way as policy and procedure form your practice as a nurse, or the nurse practice act does the same. Please don't misunderstand me here OK? The Nicene Creed is a very important doctrine in early church history, and by Church I am talking Roman Catholic Church as it is the basis for the Christian religion to begin with. Obviously many sects of Christianity have formed since then, and many Evagelical Churches do not put the same emphasis on doctrine that Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Episcopal and Lutheran Churches do. Please also understand I am not knocking Evagelical churches, only stating that they are not as doctrine oriented.
It is worth noting however, that Eastern Orthodox includes everything from Greece through to Russia. That is millions of people. The Episcopal Church is part of the Anglican communion, so that would be Church of England as well as thousands of Churches who take their history and background from the Church of England.
So while there are those that do not feel doctrine is an important part of the Christian religion, there are just as many if not more who do.
To understand all that it is necessary to read a history of the Church, and the splinter between the Western and Eastern orthodoxes. And then to continue on to the Protestant Reformation. As a lover of history and as someone who feels deeply about how my religion is practiced, I have done a great deal of study on the history of the early Church and so on. Some of it is not pretty, but then we are humans and not perfect. But the actual basis of the Christian religion is the Trinity. It came about because there were some, like Gnostics that believed that Christ was fully divine and not human at all. Or the Arian theory from the Eastern Church who believed close to the same idea. The Nicene Creed was written to have a specific basis for the church to form what they believed in. And to solidify that belief instead of having different versions being spread. The Nicene Counsel was called by Emperor Constintine. Look it up it is fascinating history. At least it is to me, the history freak.
Nov 9, '02mccountry,I respectfully disagree,disagree with your claim that belief in the Trinity is fundamental to christianity and to being a christian. I dont believe it and Im a christian, but If I said I dont believe that Jesus christ ever lived,was never resurrected and that his life has no relevance to how I lead my own life,then I could hardly be a christian.
Anyway,the word Trinity is never mentioned by Jesus nor is it even in the bible
Nov 9, '02mccountry,and to all,its been my experience with theological exchanges that someone is eventually offended,hurt or becomes hostile and while I love talking about the subuect,I dont want that to happen,so from now on I'll just stay out of the discussions regarding what is christianity,I go in peace.
Nov 9, '02Jesus,of course, was Jewish. He also was very clear charity trumps dogma. Come to think of it, nurses also hold practice over preaching. Maybe Jesus could be a nurse!
Nov 9, '02ohbet, that is why there are different sects and demoninations out there. Church doctrine is not word for word out of the bible. To understand various doctrines, whether one agrees or disagrees, it is necessary to read the works of various church theologions.
I have read Revelations and don't see anything in there that says anything about the Rapture as some Evangelical/Fundamentalists see it, but that is one of the reasons I am not a member of one of those churches.
I also don't think it is necessary to believe all the doctrines of the church to be a Christian. The reason I did not convert to Catholism is because I don't believe it is wrong for a woman to be a priest. It is one of the reasons I am an Episcopalian. I have the works that St. Augustine put together, and believe that while he was a brillant man, he was very much a product of his times. Today he would be labeled a misoginist. He believed that women contributed nothing to the making of a child. They were only the bearers of children. With Science that particular theory is thrown right out the window. I also happen to believe that if one chooses to go with the old testament as a argument as to why homosexuality is a sin, then that person should also be living the Levitican laws thoughly. The rules for what food is acceptable to eat, and how to prepare them, and so on. It is worth noting too, that in Leviticus there are rules about women who are raped. If you live in a city and didn't yell loud enough than it is your fault. Not so much your fault if it happened in a rural area where no one could hear your screams though. The penalty? The man has to pay either your father or your husband.
What I was trying to get across is that in today's world the idea of Trinity is not irrelevent. It may not be what you profess, but the doctrine of Trinty is highly relevent to millions of Christians. And if one chooses to be a Christian then we also make the choice of what sect we worship with based on what we believe is right. Christ, in a parable, said there are many grapevines when someone asked about doing things in just the right way. The various Christian sects, to me, are those many grapevines. So please do not think I am saying you are wrong, simply saying that the Trinity and other doctrines are very important to others. And that includes me.
Nov 9, '02Christianity isn't based on the Trinity. The Trinity is a concept. It's a way of explaining who God is. He is one being who has three distinct functions--God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. This what I was taught it meant when in Genesis He said"...Let us make man in our image and after our likeness." So we have God the Father--maker and Creator, God the Son--Lord and Savior, and God the Holy Spirit--Comforter and Guide. Christianity is based on believing that God wrapped Himself in flesh in the person of Jesus; that Jesus became the Ultimate Sacrifice for our sins; that He took the sins of the world upon Himself; that He was crucified,buried and resurrected;that He ascended to heaven and now sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for our sins. He is the fullfillment of Old Testament law which required man to take a sin offering to the priest to obtain forgiveness of sin. Now all a believer has to do is pray to the Father "in Jesus' name" and sincerely repent of his sin, and his sins are forgiven. This is my understanding and my belief of what Christianity is.
For the original question: Would Jesus be employable? Yes, He would be. The point is that He would not be employed. He would be as rejected now as He was then. Do I compromise my beliefs for my job? No, I don't. I can't and be a true Christian. I can't be a believer around believers and a non-believer around everyone else. Matthew 10:32-33 says"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men, I will deny him before my Father in heaven." I may have to live among men, but I will have to stand before God. Pleasing God is more important to me than anything this life has to offer.
Nov 9, '02Molly, that was an excellant way of explaining things. To me the idea of Trinity put that idea into a doctrine, a way of explaining to people in an age when most could not read, instead it was memorized.
Very good indeed.
Nov 9, '02"study, to show yourselves approved".............I think Paul said that. It probably is horribly butchered from the original that I knew so long ago. .............but I think it's a call to due dilligence of even passionless memorization.
Then on the other hand..........
There was also a passage I vaguely remember..............."Without faith works are dead"............Again, I'll give Paul the credit because he did hard time for Jesus.
I think that's an example of a sort of form fitting function thing from anatomy:chuckle The scientist in me strikes again
Imagine two types of fowl. The birds both have wings that are broad enough to create the aerodynamic lift needed for flight. The wings are thier "works". Works are the outward appearence of faith, which is the ability to fly in this example.
One bird will never fly because they think they only need wings to be a bird. The wings can be flapped and spread so anyone else can see that they are a bird also.
The other fowl with wings flaps and spreads them because they are preparing for "flight"
Which one's works are dead?
Nov 9, '02I just cant keep my mouth shut,but what Im about to claim is not meant to offend,and if I have inadvertantly done so I apologize. If someone still has no idea what to make of the Trinity ,virgin birth,miracles but regards Jesus as the ultimate criterion of his/her mortal life and finite death and thus as living ,then it cannot be denied that he/she is a christian.And he/she is different from that other person who Believes in the concept of the Trinity,miracles,etc. but draws no conclusions from it for his/her own life and death.
I think its called "walking the talk"
Nov 9, '02Ive been thinking,what if Buddha went to school and became a nurse,would he be employable? Would his patients be open to the first of his noble truths that "Everything is suffering?"