Why, why, why are people so stupid?

[duckie]

A CNA at our facility has flipped her lid and I cannot believe anyone could be so openly STUPID!!!!!!! This CNA has an anger problem, gets off on showing everyone what a toughie she is. Well, as a result, four residents on one unit have stated she is not allowed to even walk in their room. To me, that should have resulted in her termination, due to their reasoning. They have all said she is short tempered, gruff and very disrespectful. A LN overheard her talking to one of them, reported it and still she is there. Well, here is the straw that broke my back and I blew a gasket last night. I reported this to my immediate supervisor and it just so happened that the DON popped by and she heard it to, plus the LN that had this converstation with her was told by me to "Put it in writing.....NOW!" This CNA states she is going to carry a tape recorder in her pocket, mostly to pull the heat off herself and trying to catch other CNA's saying things out of line but she is also planning on recording resident converstaions. OH NO SHE WON'T! I told the DON, this is a blatant violation, not only of residents rights but the rights of the other employees and I for one will NOT tolerate it. I have never said anything to a resident I'm regretful for BUT that is not the point here, this is illegal and I told the DON, if I find out she is carrying one, I will file a suit against her, and I think that she should be canned immediately, just for making the threat. She assured the other LN that no one will even know I have it, it will be so small.. OKAY, Duckie is PIZZED!!!! I'm pushing for termination, do you see this differently than I do???? What would your reaction be? I also told "the powers that be that I will ask her in front of the other LN if she has one with her and I will tell her if she does she best sit it on the desk, in plain sight until shifts end, because if I find out she is taping, her butt is mine! Am I wrong here? How would you react to this??? One PIZZED off duck!

[hapeewendy]

your question is far too loaded for me to even tackle right now,

not the question of how to handle the situation

rather the question "why why why are people so stupid"

I see it the same way you do though........

[DIPLOMATICRN4HIRE, MSN, RN]

The liabilty alone was justification to fire her on the spot. To record anyone without their verbal permission is an infrindgement of their personal rights. Which since you informed the DON of what was voiced by the CNA it now falls into her lap ie:Nursing facility so if you are recored without your knowledge you can take action legal and if a patient is also recored without verbal verification it isa FEDERAL case because a patients rights have been disreguarded, and with the permission of the Nursing Facility.

Not only will they have an open and shut case just allowing this to escalate is rediculous..... Fire her and be done with it just document what occured and the steps and chain of command that were followed in the protection and the rights of the patients in your facility,

Just my thoughts

Zoe

[tattooednursie, LVN]

I'd be is PIZZED off duck too, Duckie! that is wrong. Sometimes I get angry too, but I prompltly leave the residents room, step out back, pizz and moan to a trusted co-worker, then come back.

Taping the residents conversations is just wrong. Sure I'd like to know what people are, saying about me, but I am not going that low. You should be pizzed, and that CNA should be canned immediaty for even saying something like that!

[SKM-NURSIEPOOH, BSN, RN]

...from the courts (that's part of what happened in water gate)...but i'm not sure about taping conversations. i think it's legal as long as one party of the conversation has knowledge about the conversating is being taped. didn't linda trip do that to monica lowenski (sp?). she tape recorded their phone conversations about monica's relationship with bill clinton & she didn't get into trouble...right ? how about when the police have people wearing recording devices in order to retrieve a confession or to obtain evidence against a criminal? i think there are circumstances where this is legal...i know employers can video tape public hallways/rooms but without audio...don't know if the employees necessarily has to be informed of it either. i personally think at the least...residents' rights would be infringed upon....but i'm not so sure about the employees' rights though.

that's a good question which needs further research.

cheers!

moe

[jemb]

Due to a situation a couple of years ago, I sought legal counsel about audiotaping in the workplace (employee areas only, no patients/residents). Yes it can be done with employees and co-workers without their permission, although I'm pretty sure it would create all sorts of hate and discontent. It is only in a phone conversation that permission must be stated.

But the CNA you refer to sounds just short of dangerous, not to mention kinda stupid . Your facility needs to get rid of her!

[debyan]

I can't understand if 4 residents are not wanting her to even step into their room, why is this person still there anyway? I totally agree with you Duckie and I would be seeing red too:angryfire Taping conversations of residents without their permission should be against patients rights and if the DON is aware and does nothing then she would be an part of it. This should be filed under WTF, you make sure you cover your a** and get the date and who was informed written down and signed by others who are aware of whats going on, as much as possible. You want to keep yourself out of troubles way. Good Luck. deb

[DIPLOMATICRN4HIRE, MSN, RN]

Thats why criminals are read thier maranda rights.Hence you have the right to remain silent, anything that you say maybe used against you in a court of law.

Yes you can record one sided but it is imesiable in a court of law.

Zoe

[rebel_red]

Duckie,

Have you thought of keeping a work journal? Dates you reported the incidents, with whom you spoke, formal documentation filed, if you are privy to it the outcome, etc....

Main concern is that this CNA will direct her anger toward you! Her behavior long ago passed unacceptable. Is it feasible for you and the others to formally document on a routine basis? More input is needed because it can't appear to be a "witch hunt". Yet she needs to go!

Experience has shown me it is the "stupid" ones that are especially treacherous as they will stoop to any level to achieve their goal. In this case covering her rear. So unfortunately, ya'll have to make sure everything is documented.....and your derrieres are also covered.

hate her hope she dies.....(just finished Sweet Potato Queens...loved this saying....)

Tres

[rncountry]

Duckie, you need to call your local omsbudsman. Verbal abuse is abuse period. Not to mention I'd put money on recording residents as illegal. Don't know so much about co-workers but HIPAA guidelines on confidentiality would preclude audiotaping anything from a patient, regardless of the setting. Even if this is an empty threat, it should still be reported to the omsbudsman, and possibly the state. It seems to me that there are 4 residents there that fear this coworker, and someone with more authority needs to be involved.

[VivaLasViejas, ASN, RN]

Yes, you should report this CNA, not only to the ombudsman, but also to your state Senior Services division and the board of nursing. Verbal abuse is against the regulations in every state, and your facility can and will be cited for permitting her to continue working when allegations of abuse have been made. (I take it your administration is doing an investigation---if not, there's yet another potential citation and civil penalty, and if the facility is found to have ignored the abuse, it could conceivably be shut down.) At the very least, the aide should be suspended until an investigation is completed. I'm surprised your DON hasn't been more aggressive about this......the CNA you're talking about would've been out on her a$$ if I were in charge. I've seen a facility get turned inside out and an entire licensed staff terminated when the state got wind of an incident of abuse that wasn't investigated; this aide isn't worth it!

[ohbet]

Original sin,specifically EVE,is the reason people are so stupid.Hope that helps.