Why Do Nurses Quit? - page 2

Jamie looked at the framed group photo on the wall of Cohort 22, the 24 new grad nurses who started a year ago in 2015. They all look so happy and eager. Where are they all now? Of the 24, 16... Read More

  1. by   Kate_Peds
    "If I took report and this was the situation you'd bet I would say something very directly to the nurse who was sooooo busy. We could debate this all day long I suppose but I still think it's a poor example of an unfriendly environment."

    I think openly and loudly humiliating someone and insinuating that a newer nurse, who is obviously going to be weaker in terms of time management, was "soooo" busy is part of the issue. Newer nurses are slower, they don't know all of the nuances of a unit quite yet, and when they are purposefully humiliated in front of everyone it can do enough damage that they feel targeted and move on to something else.

    The post is about why nurses quit, specifically new graduates. The quote was from a new graduate. You can't get any more authentic than that, whether it be your personal experience or not.
  2. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Libby1987
    As long as thousands continue to bank roll these programs who stop at practicing with max 2 patients by 4th semester and never train and require a demonstrated ability to come close to working conditions, it's going to be more of the same.
    True that! When I went to school a long time ago we carried a full patient load by the second semester but then we had a CI who was actually on the floor and only had 5 students.
  3. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Kate_Peds
    "If I took report and this was the situation you'd bet I would say something very directly to the nurse who was sooooo busy. We could debate this all day long I suppose but I still think it's a poor example of an unfriendly environment."

    I think openly and loudly humiliating someone and insinuating that a newer nurse, who is obviously going to be weaker in terms of time management, was "soooo" busy is part of the issue. Newer nurses are slower, they don't know all of the nuances of a unit quite yet, and when they are purposefully humiliated in front of everyone it can do enough damage that they feel targeted and move on to something else.

    The post is about why nurses quit, specifically new graduates. The quote was from a new graduate. You can't get any more authentic than that, whether it be your personal experience or not.
    Sure you can. You can take the drama out of it. We have no idea if she was "loudly" humiliated. I know when I'm called out it sure seems loud to me when in actuality it isn't. When I screw up (which fortunately isn't very often) I feel humiliated but whose fault is that? Her hyperbole makes me question how authentic her report of the interaction was. And when people don't own their mistakes, as she didn't, it makes me suspicious.

    And I stand by my position that we need to stop perpetuating this NETY concept and instead focus on how to better prepare new nurses for the rigors of actually being a nurse!
  4. by   MrNurse(x2)
    After three decades in nursing, I have seen change that is not for the better. When I began in 1989, I was a graduate nurse for three months before I ever sat for boards. I then waited another three months for board results to be told I could function independently. Effectively a 6 month orientation. I was then exclusive days for 1 year, despite my desire to work nights. The disadvantage to new nurses that come as any other nurse sets up failure. Mistakes when I was new were seen as learning opportunities, now they are strikes against you. The general attitude that employees are expendable prevails and even veteran employees with decades of loyalty are no longer valued. The cost to develop a new nurse is no more than an experienced nurse today because there is no difference in orientation time. That leaves the new grad in a position to fake it until they make it, a very dangerous place for the nurse, patients and coworkers. It really is a scary time to be a new nurse.
  5. by   Kate_Peds
    Quote from Wuzzie
    Sure you can. You can take the drama out of it. We have no idea if she was "loudly" humiliated. I know when I'm called out it sure seems loud to me when in actuality it isn't. When I screw up (which fortunately isn't very often) I feel humiliated but whose fault is that? Her hyperbole makes me question how authentic her report of the interaction was. And when people don't own their mistakes, as she didn't, it makes me suspicious.

    And I stand by my position that we need to stop perpetuating this NETY concept and instead focus on how to better prepare new nurses for the rigors of actually being a nurse!
    I would encourage everyone to remember what it is like to be a new graduate. Hopefully that way the line of communication will remain open. The issue of new grads leaving is not just the topic of a popular gossip session, it's a very real problem.

    I think the best way to find out why new graduates are leaving is to communicate with them about their experiences. I commend Nurse Beth for asking those direct questions, and, as unpopular as the terms may be, saying what needs to be said. We can sit around with our eyes shut and our hands over our ears because we don't like a particular phrase, but in the end, if this is what new grads are saying is causing them to move on, we would be foolish to assume that syntax is the cause.
  6. by   DeeAngel
    Quote from Kate_Peds
    "If I took report and this was the situation you'd bet I would say something very directly to the nurse who was sooooo busy. We could debate this all day long I suppose but I still think it's a poor example of an unfriendly environment."

    I think openly and loudly humiliating someone and insinuating that a newer nurse, who is obviously going to be weaker in terms of time management, was "soooo" busy is part of the issue. Newer nurses are slower, they don't know all of the nuances of a unit quite yet, and when they are purposefully humiliated in front of everyone it can do enough damage that they feel targeted and move on to something else.

    The post is about why nurses quit, specifically new graduates. The quote was from a new graduate. You can't get any more authentic than that, whether it be your personal experience or not.
    No one said anything about deliberately humiliating anyone in front of others. A quiet private mention of the problem and why it's a problem for the oncoming shift is how new people learn and grow.
  7. by   JerseyTomatoMDCrab
    Being asked to do so much more with so much less.

    It all pretty much boils down to that.
  8. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Kate_Peds
    I would encourage everyone to remember what it is like to be a new graduate. Hopefully that way the line of communication will remain open. The issue of new grads leaving is not just the topic of a popular gossip session, it's a very real problem.
    Like any of us have forgotten. I remember every painful detail even though it was 30 years ago. Look, I don't disagree with you but this NETY thing is getting out of hand and setting new grads up to fear starting out. They are told they ARE going to be eaten so they start looking for it. Add to that the new generation of nurses we are seeing that cannot handle criticism of any kind, in any format no matter how kindly it is meted out. People are spewing "NETY" if someone doesn't say good morning to them for crying out loud. Do a search here and you will see what I mean. None of us are disagreeing that we should be nice to each other but sadly there are mean people in this world and some of them become nurses. My stance is instead of scaring the crap out of new nurses how about better preparing them to handle the stressors, and yes that includes mean people and being corrected when they screw up (which they will), before they start their first job. I would be happier with the phrase HETO (Humans Eat Their Own) which is much more accurate.
    Last edit by Wuzzie on Dec 14, '16 : Reason: Scared of the grammar police!
  9. by   Julius Seizure
    Quote from Wuzzie
    The patient may have been NPO and without fluids for an entire shift or may have had an intermittent arrhythmia with potential for instability. I could keep going. Not having any scheduled meds is no excuse for poor patient care. She tried once. Did she ask anybody else? Did she ask for help? If I took report and this was the situation you'd bet I would say something very directly to the nurse who was sooooo busy. We could debate this all day long I suppose but I still think it's a poor example of an unfriendly environment. There are times when being friendly isn't in our patient's best interest. The unfriendly part comes when the staff has too much to do and not enough time to do it which leaves them stressed and sometimes short when they answer questions. This is often interpreted by new nurses as mean and disrespectful when in fact the "offender" is simply trying to keep her/his head above water.
    While I wouldn't call that nurses experience "bullying", it was not appropriate for the oncoming nurse to question her care so loudly that everyone fell quiet and it was heard by family and/or patients (if that was the case, of course the possibility of exaggerating exists).

    I would say, Wuzzie, that you seem to be looking for any and all possibilities to find fault with this off-going nurse. We only have the information in the quote - not the whole story. All of your scenarios are plausible. But it is also plausible that the nurse prioritized correctly and WAS "so body". It's also possible that the patient wasn't NPO, had no IV meds at all, and no cardiac complications to their illness. It is not unheard of for a floor-status patient to not need IV access. She also may have tried more than one. She may have asked other nurses to try, too. We don't know any of that, so we cannot assume. By the way, I don't think that the quote wasn't meant to be a comprehensive police report; it was just a quote about how that nurse felt, and probably not even the entire story as she would have told it.


    To your ultimate point, I do agree that if not prioritizing IV access for this patient was inappropriate, then saying something directly to the off-going nurse can be appropriate. And that there is a right and a wrong way to do that. I think that matters. Especially when we are ALL just trying to keep our heads above water.
    Last edit by Julius Seizure on Dec 14, '16
  10. by   Wuzzie
    Quote from Julius Seizure
    While I wouldn't call that nurses experience "bullying", it was not appropriate for the oncoming nurse to question her care so loudly that everyone fell quiet and it was heard by family and/or patients (if that was the case, of course the possibility of exaggerating exists).

    I would say, Wuzzie, that you seem to be looking for any and all possibilities to find fault with this off-going nurse. We only have the information in the quote - not the whole story. All of your scenarios are plausible. But it is also plausible that the nurse prioritized correctly and WAS "so body". It's also possible that the patient wasn't NPO, had no IV meds at all, and no cardiac complications to their illness. It is not unheard of for a floor-status patient to not need IV access. She also may have tried more than one. She may have asked other nurses to try, too. We don't know any of that, so we cannot assume. By the way, I don't think that the quote wasn't meant to be a comprehensive police report; it was just a quote about how that nurse felt.


    To your ultimate point, I do agree that if not prioritizing IV access for this patient was inappropriate, then saying something directly to the off-going nurse can be appropriate. But there is a right and a wrong way to do that. I think that matters. Especially when we are ALL just trying to keep our heads above water.
    No, my ultimate point is that we need to stop telling new nurses that they are going to get eaten (they are now being told this in school) and figure out how to better prepare them for the rigors of nursing which includes but certainly isn't limited to dealing with mean people and receiving criticism which is never easy and often painful. I have stated this over and over but all I'm getting back is myopic responses focusing on my wish for a better example of an "unfriendly environment" than what was provided in the article. I never said that loudly humiliating a person is acceptable nor do I participate in such behavior. I simply offered another point of view of the situation which has now descended into assumptions being made about me. As such I will bow out and let everyone go on with their day.
  11. by   Julius Seizure
    Quote from Wuzzie
    No, my ultimate point is that we need to stop telling new nurses that they are going to get eaten (they are now being told this in school) and figure out how to better prepare them for the rigors of nursing.

    I agree with this as well.
  12. by   anitalaff
    Quote from mrnurse(x2)
    after three decades in nursing, i have seen change that is not for the better. When i began in 1989, i was a graduate nurse for three months before i ever sat for boards. I then waited another three months for board results to be told i could function independently. Effectively a 6 month orientation. I was then exclusive days for 1 year, despite my desire to work nights. The disadvantage to new nurses that come as any other nurse sets up failure. Mistakes when i was new were seen as learning opportunities, now they are strikes against you. The general attitude that employees are expendable prevails and even veteran employees with decades of loyalty are no longer valued. The cost to develop a new nurse is no more than an experienced nurse today because there is no difference in orientation time. That leaves the new grad in a position to fake it until they make it, a very dangerous place for the nurse, patients and coworkers. It really is a scary time to be a new nurse.
    thank you for posting this response!!
  13. by   NocNurs
    I'm a new RN, but I have been a LPN for almost 20 years, I don't have an unrealistic veiw or expectation but I can say this. The biggest stressor in nursing for me is the recent (last 10 years or so) change in what all health care areas are focusing on: a ridiculous expectation of customer satisfaction. The outcome is very few satisfied customers and nurses who are sick of being pushed into a role of satisfaction and not nursing. Do I want my pt and families comfortable? Yes. Is that really possible when pts and families are in a scary and uncertain situation? Is it OK to send a nurse after sodas for a pts perfectly able bodied visitor? No. But in the eyes of management I should deliver those sodas with a smile. I have to smile and be ok with an insane amount of demands, verbal abuse and questioning of my abilities because Dr. Google has afforded the average person with more then enough education to do my job. The disrespect is insane and health care facilities are not focusing on fixing it in any way. I leave work feeling defeated because 3 out of 10 pts. and their families feel as though the customer is always right. I have to feel guilty that pt. A who is very ill, had to get the very minium of care because pt. B has a more demanding family.

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