Why are Newbies Such Whiners?

[Ruby Vee]

catchy title, eh? right up there with "why are nurses such backstabbers" (assuming that all nurses are backstabbers) and "nurses eat their young" and "why are nurses so mean?" i don't know about the rest of us "seasoned nurses", but i'm getting rather tired of all the threads busting on us for being "mean" to new nurses, students, etc. it seems to be an underlying assumption on most of the threads of the ilk that nurses are mean, evil backstabbers who live to humiliate someone with less experience.

i've had the opportunity lately to observe some newbies and their preceptors from the patient's perspective. granted, i've been a nurse for 29 years and have been both an orientee and a preceptor -- most recently an orientee. so i do have some experience from pretty much all sides now.

i was a patient, flat in bed after my spinal surgery. the orientee and preceptor introduced themselves, outlined the plan for the day, and then the preceptor left for a short while to sort out another patient who was screaming the screams of the totally demented, leaving the orientee to do my assessment and am care. the orientee was supposed to be almost ready to be on her own -- and she scared me to death! wanted to give my antihypertensives when my bp was 82/50, wanted to give my hctz when i was dehydrated from vomiting, npo, and my iv rate was only 50cc/hour and a few other things indicating (to me, anyway) poor judgment. when i refused to take the meds and outlined my rationale, she ordered me to take them anyway so she wouldn't get into trouble. i asked her how long she'd been in this job, and was it her first nursing job, or where had she worked before. the floodgates opened, and she started complaining about what a terrible place it was to work, the lousy pay, the horrible hours and how all the experienced staff were mean to her. (the preceptor came back into the room in time to hear that.) totally unprofessional! the preceptor didn't say anything in front of me, and calmly took her off to "plan the rest of our day."

later that day, i overheard the orientee telling someone (i'm assuming on her cellphone) how totally mean her preceptor was, and how the preceptor was "out to get her." she said "all i was doing was bonding with my patient who is a nurse, too, and the ***** (preceptor) just totally humiliated me. she told me i was unprofessional! i thought you were supposed to be nice to your patients."

nurse eating her young? or totally out of line and unprofessional newbie whining about being justifiably corrected?

another time, i heard a preceptor tell her orientee not to give my antihypertensives if my bp was less than 100/systolic. (it was.) newbie comes in to give my antihypertensives anyway. (different newbie.) i refuse. newbie goes to get preceptor. preceptor and i discuss my bp and agree not to give antihypertensives. later, i hear preceptor calmly explaining to newbie that giving an antihypertensive to a hypotensive patient can cause problems. (they're out in the hall, evidently close to my room, and i didn't hear anyone else around, so i'm assuming there was at least an illusion of privacy for this discussion.) newbie got defensive and started lying. preceptor remained calm and reiterated her position. newbie continued to be defensive, escalating the volume. later, i hear the two newbies commisserating about how mean their respective preceptors are.

i have to admit that when i hear a new nurse complaining about how "nurses eat their young", especially after those recent experiences, i always wonder what a preceptor could possibly do to try to correct some of these blatent mistakes without being accused of being "mean." and i wonder if that new nurse was as ridiculously in the wrong as those two were, and if she was, did she have any clue that her problems weren't all someone else's fault!

precepting is a tough enough job without being accused of being evil everytime you try to help someone to do better! being a new person is difficult, too -- but please try to look at what you contribute to the problem rather than just blaming the seasoned nurses you work with!

[blueiwahine]

I have to say my experience with my mgr and fellow co-workers has been a good experience...Sure there are some days when they might be a little cranky or not have patience for me...but aren't we all and considering what we have to work with...who wouldn't be...and I also can be a whiney baby at times...

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

Vision is fine...don't be sorry

We will all agree to disagree. :)

No need to discuss further. Sometimes our minds are made up, no amount of "discussion" will change each other's point of view. So we'll move on.

[lorelei40]

talk about dwelling on the negative! sheesh.

[gdean1]

I've seen whiny newbies and b***chy preceptors and undortunately that is a management issue. First a preceptor should be wanting to train newbies or it won't work I've seen too many who do it for the 0.25 extra they make or because of the status of it or for all the wrong reasons. The ones who do it for the right reasons are wonderful -- except when they get the whiny ones.

Newbies also need to have patience to learn what they need to. All too often, they expect to be able to do things on their own and do make scarey judgements. Fortunately you were able to catch some and use that as a learning experience if they were open to it but they obviously weren't. So sad for the newbie.

I haven't been around long enough to see outcomes but I would venture to guess that those whiny newbies you talk about will mature into horrible nurses and even worse preceptors. The good nurses in training will make better nurses and hopefully see the advantage in being a preceptor and do a great job at that as well.

Management should continually look at their preceptors and ask if they are doing a good job. If not, they should step back. Just because they took a precepting class about 15 years ago doesn't not qualify them to continue. They may have gone through an ugly divorce, been pasted over for promotions, fired from another job and returned and who know what all to change they ability to train new nurses correctly and getting a bad newbie off on the wrong foot will compound the issues down the road

[twotrees2]

those who do stand up for what we shoudl have should also be forewarned and prepared to potentially loose thier job or be told to get looking -

i wsa told last week that they wish id stay and that i am a good nurse yada yada when i went in and said i cant work theh way you wish me to this is what i need ( adequate staffing, more orientation for the new nurses bring in and even more for the new grads as it reflects on my license to work with them and be unabke to HELP them - etc) i was basiically told i will be missed - umm yeah ok so obviously the powers that be will NOT be fighting with us even though tyhey "say" they do not agree with the corporation way of doing stuff-

Forgive me, but I thought something I wrote on another forum was appropriate here.

Nursing students must be taught that their safety and professional well being come first. Saying, "no" to assignments or tasks that are either too demanding to maintian safety, or ramp out of control, will engender respect.

If it brings reprimand, cynicism, condescension, or managerial resistence, then it's time for a new position.

Not asking for help will create an instant breeding ground for stress and discontent.

Expect and practice equality.

Practice saying, "Your [behavior/condescension/rudeness/yelling/etc.] is unacceptable and is an embarassment to your proferssion." You will be too upset to think it when it's needed.

Your desk is yours. Your report is vital. Don't hesitate to take it when the time comes. Don't go searching for charts for others. They're around.

Stop apologizing for doing your job. If the doctor is supposed to put in orders, make them do it. God knows, you have enough to do and they will not very receptive when you ask them to help you with a turn or insert an ng tube. If you have to wake up a doc for a good reason, it's not about him, or you, or the price of Bahamian swordfish. It's about care. The CEO will not apologize to you after you get sprayed with sputum from disonnected vent tubing.

In general, do not clean up after others. If they made a mess, they can help clean it. It is this kind of everyday behavior that perpetuates the die-hard, nurse-as-maid identity.

Require that they wash their hands according to contemporary standards of infection control. It's not about them, it's about the patient. Always remind them of that. And remember, no manager worth his/her salt will ever side with a physician for not washing his/her hands.

When approached without the courtesy of a, "Good morning, or hello," I simply say, "I'm fine..how are you?" I say it with a smile and, in ten years, it has never never failed to create the expectation of respect and decency to the interaction.

"Yeah, but you're a guy!"

Well, again, fuhgettaboutit!! Respect is behavior specific, not gender specific.

Unless your patient's crashing, take your break and take your lunch. No one cares how many you've skipped. There is no martyr ranking that is tallied when you get to heaven. It's is not a badge of honor. Rather, it says, "My well being is not important. And I will fulfill whatever demand you place upon me because I am a nurse and this is my calling!"

Why don't you just throw yourself on a pointy stick while you're at it.

Take a stand...be a true advocate for not only your patient..but more importantly...for yourself.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

ok I Just graduated one month ago.............I managed to pass the Nclex....now I have the interview.......getting ready to be tossed into the deep end of the pool.I can't swim....during my first clinical rotation most of the nurses I encountered were pretty miserable. I thought about quitting because I thought that nurses were supposed to LOVE their job. when I figured out that they were always short staffed and under equipped, well who wouldn't be grumpy,that and a bunch of starry eyed students underfoot!I learned to just observe and jump in with an extra pair of hand if needed.I went on to diffferent sites and had different experiences. Some great,some just ok.I do realize that even though I managed to retain the info long enough to become licensed........I am so not feeling ready for this,yet I feel as if I am supposed to go in their and know what I am doing!AAAAAhhhhh.....so...what is a newbie to do? Don't want to come off like a complete idiot,but don't want to be an arrogant whiner! Any advise?? please!!!

I guess maybe I'm not entirely a newbie, since I have been allowed to orient some people--Ye Gods! Who's idea was THAT? But I'm still new enough that I can remember your situation pretty vividly. And, based on all my many months of experience, I have some suggestions.

1. Be confident, but humble. Try hard to look as though you are sure of yourself, but always be ready to listen to advice from experienced nurses.

2. Choose your role models. Experienced nurses are not always excellent nurses. Excellent nurses have a lot to teach you. Mediocre nurses also have a lot to teach you, but not all of it is stuff you need to learn. However, don't forget that even mediocre nurses deserve your respect. It's a hard field, and rising to mediocrity is an accomplishment. Plus, even excellent nurses cut some corners--it's a matter of knowing which can be cut safely.

3. All nurses grumble--it's part of the bonding process--but, in general, the best nurses do love their jobs, and will respond positively to new nurses who also love their jobs.

4. It isn't uncommon for new nurses to have diarrhea. Seriously. You'll be having severe anxiety on a regular basis, and at times it may attack your GI system. It will get better as you get more experience and confidence, but it will be hell at first. Try to stay cheerful about it.

5. Seek out those who have something to teach you, and be ready for constructive criticism. There may, indeed, be some around you who specialize in destructive criticism. Don't take their crap. But, "Hey, you're doing great!" while nice to hear, doesn't always teach you a lot, either. You need encouragement, but you need to know when you're doing something wrong.

6. Don't lose your sense of humor. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: If they wanted a good nurse, they should have hired one.

[Tweety, BSN, RN]

those who do stand up for what we shoudl have should also be forewarned and prepared to potentially loose thier job or be told to get looking -

i wsa told last week that they wish id stay and that i am a good nurse yada yada when i went in and said i cant work theh way you wish me to this is what i need ( adequate staffing, more orientation for the new nurses bring in and even more for the new grads as it reflects on my license to work with them and be unabke to HELP them - etc) i was basiically told i will be missed - umm yeah ok so obviously the powers that be will NOT be fighting with us even though tyhey "say" they do not agree with the corporation way of doing stuff-

You took a stand. They told you where you stand. You can choose to vote with your feet. Their loss. If more new grads did this, they would stop to think.

p.s. Your post was very hard to read because there is no punction, no telling where one sentence ends and another begins, many typos. Sorry, I know we're not an English class and I make lots of typos myself, but just a friendly word of advice. Thanks.

[Scrubbs]

you mean there are nurses that actually have time to EAT???!!! I want a job there!

All in all, it is what you make it.

[rn/writer, RN]

I guess maybe I'm not entirely a newbie, since I have been allowed to orient some people--Ye Gods! Who's idea was THAT? But I'm still new enough that I can remember your situation pretty vividly. And, based on all my many months of experience, I have some suggestions.

1. Be confident, but humble. Try hard to look as though you are sure of yourself, but always be ready to listen to advice from experienced nurses.

2. Choose your role models. Experienced nurses are not always excellent nurses. Excellent nurses have a lot to teach you. Mediocre nurses also have a lot to teach you, but not all of it is stuff you need to learn. However, don't forget that even mediocre nurses deserve your respect. It's a hard field, and rising to mediocrity is an accomplishment. Plus, even excellent nurses cut some corners--it's a matter of knowing which can be cut safely.

3. All nurses grumble--it's part of the bonding process--but, in general, the best nurses do love their jobs, and will respond positively to new nurses who also love their jobs.

4. It isn't uncommon for new nurses to have diarrhea. Seriously. You'll be having severe anxiety on a regular basis, and at times it may attack your GI system. It will get better as you get more experience and confidence, but it will be hell at first. Try to stay cheerful about it.

5. Seek out those who have something to teach you, and be ready for constructive criticism. There may, indeed, be some around you who specialize in destructive criticism. Don't take their crap. But, "Hey, you're doing great!" while nice to hear, doesn't always teach you a lot, either. You need encouragement, but you need to know when you're doing something wrong.

6. Don't lose your sense of humor. If I've said it once, I've said it a hundred times: If they wanted a good nurse, they should have hired one.

Great post with a realistic perspective. Good sense of balance which can be difficult to achieve as a newbie. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

[nj1grlcrus]

Now let's open the flood gates.

How many of you think that if more men occupied the ranks that most of this whining and backstabbing would disappear?

Ahha, now this is my area of expertise, having worked for twenty-two years with men in the construction trades. They put nurses to shame when it comes to being b*tchy backstabbers, they live for gossip, and love it when they can laugh at the next guy. Their saving grace, is that they can leave that all behind on Friday night, belly-up to the bar together, and buy eachother drinks.:cheers: Or invite a single dad over on Saturday, so his kids have someone else's kids to play with. Look for the good in the nurse next to you, its in there somewhere, or they would never have stayed in nursing.

[nursemike, ASN, RN]

Ahha, now this is my area of expertise, having worked for twenty-two years with men in the construction trades. They put nurses to shame when it comes to being b*tchy backstabbers, they live for gossip, and love it when they can laugh at the next guy.

25 yr carpenter, here. I didn't find this to be anywhere near universally true, though I certainly did see some of it. Well, the laughing at the next guy--yeah, that's pretty universal, but usually amiable.

I've found many things to enjoy about moving to a matriarchal society. I've found a lot of things that seem constant in any job, be it nurse, carpenter, or fry cook. Some are even good things. I do think there are a few subtle differences about a predominantly male field and a predominantly female one, but most of the time they're grossly overstated.

The other night, while talking on the phone to the lab, I attempted to sit down in a chair which didn't want to be sat on. My female co-workers were initially concerned for my safety, then amused that I didn't interrupt the phone call even as I was falling. The guys I've worked with would have been amused, period.

One thing I learned in the trades, which may apply somewhat to this thread, is that on any construction crew I've seen, the youngest guy on the crew is "the kid" and subject to much abuse. Usually it's good natured abuse and a rite of initiation. If you're 40 years old, with 20 years experience, and you work with a bunch of 50 and 60 year olds, they'll ride you and razz you and have a ball at your expense. Of course, by the time you're 40, you've been around enough to know it's just a matter of time until they hire a 30 year old, and you get to join the fun.

I think even the most benign environment has a period of "dues paying" for the newbies. It's human nature that people are waiting to see if you are going to be worth their time and effort. I see nothing wrong with that, as long as it's reasonable.

Last night I had a pt d/c her heplock, and I couldn't get a new one to start. I asked the best "stick" on our unit to try--she got it on the third attempt. I appreciated her generosity to no end. These days, I'm at the point where I get most of my own sticks, and sometimes even get them for someone else. I find I'm a lot more willing to help someone who has made an honest effort than one who hasn't even tried. I'm sure it's the same with those who've helped me.

But, in response to the OP, most of the newbies I've seen have been the same way. I do take a certain pride in my 50 years of life experience and the lessons I've learned before I ever thought of nursing, but I've also seen some 20-something GNs who seem way more mature and responsible than I was at that age. At least around here, it seems to me that damned few cry-babies make it through nursing school.

[twotrees2]

You took a stand. They told you where you stand. You can choose to vote with your feet. Their loss. If more new grads did this, they would stop to think.

p.s. Your post was very hard to read because there is no punction, no telling where one sentence ends and another begins, many typos. Sorry, I know we're not an English class and I make lots of typos myself, but just a friendly word of advice. Thanks.

sorry forgot the abc check - thanks for the reminder :) hate typing LOL