Why are Hospitals so darn mean when someone fails the NCLEX?

Roland · Apr 2, 2005

Oh so it gets even better! They're expunging your reputation in one of the best hospitals in the area! Then I would definitely leave, I'm sure they'll have many more to take my place, and my parting line would still be... Since you love printing personal information for all to see here's my resignation, you can put it next to my now successful NCLEX results. Thanks for paying for all that training and good bye!
And to those blasting the OP about the NCLEX, he's got a point. The questions are often ambiguous and extremely annoying in their inability to simply ask a straight question about what we know. But...
...on the flip side, I am one of those who has now bought into the critical thinking psychobabble Marxist nursing bs (were those your exact words??) as well... because, nursing is problem solving. You go to work and you're given a set of data and told to make sense of it. You have to know how to think critically: how to attack the problem and sort the data effectively in order to solve your patient's problem. In addition to testing our knowledge base, NCLEX questions (as much as we hate it) are also testing our ability to work that process.

Let me go a bit further. Why, are your NCLEX results anyone's business other than you and your employer? As it stands here (Indiana) anyone can do a license search at http://www.in.gov two days after you take the test and see whether or not you passed (they can also get your home address as a nice bonus). Did any of you ever get a bad grade in college? How would you have felt if the college newspaper had printed on page three BOB SMITH scores a D- on his A&P midterm! She was actually told about her failing score by staff who learned it from co-workers who were checking the state website like school girls every ten minutes. Note, this happens everyday all over the State (and I doubt we are the only state where this information is available online like this).

LydiaNN · Apr 2, 2005

Wow. I doubt very much that CA would make that info available to the general public, but I've never tested that theory. I have always used my maiden name professionally and legally, and my married name in situations where familiarity is appropriate. I don't know that it keeps me any safer, but I do like the idea of people from work not being able to find me at home, and people from my life outside work not knowing how to access professional information about me.

closatssl1 · Apr 2, 2005

When I graduated, in 1984, and in Pennsylvania, we were given 2 chances to pass before our GN status was pulled. Once the status was pulled, though, you were bumped down to CNA. I don't see any way around that one, unless there was some sort of tiered pay system that paid extra per unit of education, or something. That would be a mess, though. Advertising it in the hospital newsletter is cruel. I'd rethink working at that facility.

EXACTLY! YOU WERE GIVEN 2 CHANCES TO PASS THE BOARD BEFORE THEY PULL YOUR GN STATUS! WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO PULL THAT STATUS AFTER ONLY 1 FAIL? DON'T YOU HAVE 6 MONTHS FOR YOUR TEMPORARY LICENSE? ARE U REQUIRED TO TELL YOUR EMPLOYER WHEN U R TAKING YOUR STATE BOARD? AREN'T U ALLOWED TO TAKE THE STATE BOARD AT LEAST 3 TIMES WITHIN THE 6 MONTH PERIOD? :crying2:

LydiaNN · Apr 2, 2005

EXACTLY! YOU WERE GIVEN 2 CHANCES TO PASS THE BOARD BEFORE THEY PULL YOUR GN STATUS! WHY WOULD THEY NEED TO PULL THAT STATUS AFTER ONLY 1 FAIL? DON'T YOU HAVE 6 MONTHS FOR YOUR TEMPORARY LICENSE? ARE U REQUIRED TO TELL YOUR EMPLOYER WHEN U R TAKING YOUR STATE BOARD? AREN'T U ALLOWED TO TAKE THE STATE BOARD AT LEAST 3 TIMES WITHIN THE 6 MONTH PERIOD?

Back then, they were only offered twice a year- in July and Feb. As mentioned before, they were taken with paper and pencil over a two day period. Very different from the way it works now, so it is hard for me to make any comparison.

dosamigos76, RN · Apr 2, 2005

At the hosptial where I currently work as a LPN, a GN is a GN, even if she doesn't pass the NCLEX. Until they pass, they have to have a RN sign behind them. I beleive they can work for 6 months as a GN........Makes me REALLY appreciate where I work. Loved it before, now especially grateful

begalli · Apr 2, 2005

At the hospital I work at, you can work as an "IPRN" or Interim Permit Registered Nurse"..

You must be in CA or a state with a similar law.

California uses Interim Permits (IP). The IP expires after six months OR immediately after pasing or failing NCLEX - whichever is comes first. This IP allows a new grad to work under the supervision of a licensed RN and is able to function fully under the RN's license. However, the new grad working under an IP is still liable for all of their actions and should carry malpractice insurance (I did). When a new grad signs official documentation, they sign IP, RN - they are no longer a SN or GN or whatever. Nobody has to co-sign an IP, RN's work.

If NCLEX is failed, the IP is pulled immediately. Which means the new grad can no longer work in the role of RN because, 1) the IP is considered a temporary limited license, 2) it is illegal and punishable by law to practice nursing without a license, and 3) the new grad is no longer a SN and is not the responsibility of the school practicing under the license's of RN instructors.

I would certainly think that it would be a liability to the hospital to allow a new grad to work in the role of an RN if the person was in fact not a licensed, or IP'd RN - even under another RN's license. The law just doesn't work that way, at least not in CA.

I was hired by my hospital with an IP with the understanding that by the time my orientation was complete (3 months) that I will have taken taken NCLEX, passed it, and was able to provide a license number to be able to go into the count of the unit and work on my own. This is pretty common around here.

The two IP nurses who I've seen NOT pass NCLEX did not take different positions within the hospital. One was back on my unit with his license in about 2 - 3 monts and the other never came back.

I really don't think a hospital owes anyone anything but their dignity if they haven't passed the licensing exam.

begalli · Apr 2, 2005

Roland · Apr 3, 2005

What makes the situation even worse in my opinion is that they have her back out on the floor taking care of patients by herself! Yes, she is still administering medications by herself. I don't know how they are documenting her work (perhaps under the name of a different RN). So she is doing the same work for half the pay. And this is considered to be one of the best (if not the best) hospital in Indianapolis.

humglum, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2005

Ok, well, that's illegal. I've read all the arguments about a GN is a GN is a GN, and I know things work differently in other states, but that would never fly here. That would be the equivalent of a CNA giving medications.

Audreyfay · Apr 3, 2005

3. The worst part is that they will put her name in the hospital newsletter as failing the NCLEX. When she asked why she was told that they do it to "help" the person since people will know they failed and can thus offer emotional support!

I would get a lawyer. Emotional trauma. Hey, maybe she'd never have to work again. :idea: (Sure - but who knows?) I think it would be worth your while to look into it. This hospital needs to be turned on its ear! :devil:

meownsmile, BSN, RN · Apr 3, 2005

No. Even if the basis of hiring is the idea that you will pass, GNs are not allowed to do RN-duties on "the assumption that you will pass" - that is against the law.
If the hospital was asking a GN to do - or letting a GN - do anything more than a GN can legally do without a nursing license, on "the assumption" that he/she is about to pass, that is called "the unauthorized practice of nursing" and is illegal.
Is, for example, "a really smart new grad who is definatly going to pass when she takes it next week" an RN? No.
If your (3rd person you) hospital is letting new grads "practice nursing," on the assumption that he/she is about to pass, duck and CYA.
All the failure of NCLEX signifies is that person is not licensed to be an RN. It doesn't make you not a GN anymore.

I think you misunderstand me. GN work through orientation usually, under the direction of a RN up to the point they pass or dont pass their NCLEX. Noone works on their own until such time they PASS, they arent teminated, but return to a previous post, or classification until such time they pass.

Roland · Apr 3, 2005

I think you misunderstand me. GN work through orientation usually, under the direction of a RN up to the point they pass or dont pass their NCLEX. Noone works on their own until such time they PASS, they arent teminated, but return to a previous post, or classification until such time they pass.

Well in this situation there are at least two others who are working on their own and who haven't taken their NCLEX (I think they are scheduled for next week). I could tell my wife to complain to someone (like that State Board of Nursing), but she passed her boards! All that would likely do is ultimately get her fired and even one missed paycheck would probably might cause us to lose our house (not to mention blacklisted as a troublemaker whistle blower locally by hospitals). I'm already known as the controversial weirdo at nursing school who posts on Allnurses when he should be studying! One of us has to be employable. After that she would no doubt divorce me that is if she didn't kill me first! If it occurs at one hospital which is considered among the best in the area I'll bet it happens in many other places too.