When do they get a return on investment?

Nurses General Nursing

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BrandonLPN, LPN

3,358 Posts

All you owe ANY employer is to give a proper two weeks notice. You don't have to "pay" anything back. I love my job, but if an better opportunity presents itself, I'll respectfully give my two weeks and then I'm gone like Donkey Kong.

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

IIRC posted links and or figures on new hire costs including what loss if any are incurred by a facility should things not work out, however cannot find those links again so:

Hospitals fight to stop new nurses from quitting - Health - Health care - NBCNews.com

http://www.rwjf.org/files/research/revlewinevalrnturnover.pdf

Nursing Center - Journal Article

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

Hey there, folks. Let's not presume that when the new nurse resigns, that she / he should be held accountable for the training provided.

If the facility tolerates an "insular" or other negative work environment, or furnishes ineffective training, or other such condition that isn't previously disclosed to the new employee, then I say there's no responsibility for the orientee.

Also, employers are aware from experience that not every hiree remains at the job fro an extended period... either because of a resignation or a re-assignment, lay-off, etc. So, these things are simply a cost of business.

Well suppose you could look at it that way, but the impact on graduate nurses is great.

In many areas of this country new grads face very difficult odds at being hired, especially where the supply of experienced nurses is great.

There are plenty of threads about the cost of orienting new grads and the implications that has. Can we try to keep the focus on the costs of orienting experienced nurses?

DoGoodThenGo

4,129 Posts

All you owe ANY employer is to give a proper two weeks notice. You don't have to "pay" anything back. I love my job, but if an better opportunity presents itself, I'll respectfully give my two weeks and then I'm gone like Donkey Kong.

That attitude in a nutshell along with several other factors is largely contributing the high unemployment in the USA ATM, and other structural shifts that are having and will continue to have an impact for years to come.

Employers more and more are relying on temporary/part-time agency staffing to avoid the costs associated with taking on and having to replace permanent workers. When they do hire permanent employees they often today expect the ideal person to arrive requiring minimal if any training. In short they want someone that can do the job from day one. In the most extreme cases it can lead to employers moving shop to where workers can be found not only cheaply but in such large supply of unemployed that those who find work consider themselves lucky and stay put.

Specializes in ICU, CM, Geriatrics, Management.
... Employers more and more are relying on temporary/part-time agency staffing to avoid the costs associated with taking on and having to replace permanent workers...

We all need to understand that healthcare is first and foremost a business. "No profit, no services."

As such, employers will do what they believe is in their best interests as far as costs of care are concerned.

If they believe hiring agency personnel is more economical (considering all involved factors), well then that's what they're gonna do.

If another facility figures out the true root causes / reasons for their turnover, and then acts to address them, it may arrive at a more effective way to handle the entire hiring / orientation process... and spare themselves of unnecessary costs.

Nurses resign for various reasons. If an employer creates a positive work environment for new hires, and then maintains that over time, I believe staff will tend to stay put.

DizzyLizzyNurse

1,024 Posts

Specializes in Peds Medical Floor.

I figure the cost is my salary plus whatever extra the preceptor is being paid. (She gets so much extra an hour.) Then you'd have to factor in whatever extra supplies I'd use (maybe it takes me two IV kits to get an IV when it would take my preceptor 1). Plus the cost of the infomatics nurse who teaches everyone how to use the computer and the nurse who makes sure you know your skills. Your part of the expense would be their salary divided by however many people were in the class with me.

Stephalump

2,723 Posts

Specializes in Forensic Psych.

Why in the world would I owe them the cost of my salary when I was there, earning my salary? If I'm not earning my salary...why are they giving me a salary?

llg, PhD, RN

13,469 Posts

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.
Why in the world would I owe them the cost of my salary when I was there, earning my salary? If I'm not earning my salary...why are they giving me a salary?

Because nobody would take the job if they didn't pay you while you were being oriented.

While you are paired with a preceptor (2 nurses taking care of a "1 nurse assignment), your pressence is not adding any value. You may be working very hard, but you could go home and the patients would still get good care. The preceptor could take that assignment by herself. Therefore, the expense of your salary and benefits (and any other expensed related to your education) are "extra" over what is actually needed to provide care that day.

Employers pay you while you get oriented/educated only because they think they will benefit in the long run by making that investment in your education. It's only worth it to them if you stay and work for them after you have received your education from them. The OP's question was essentially, "How long does a person have to work for an employer for that employer to feel they have gotten a suitable return on their investment in the new hire's education/orientation?"

BrandonLPN, LPN

3,358 Posts

I'm still confused by the point of this thread. Is it just purely rhetoric wonderings of how much a facility invests into a new hire during orientation? THAT I get, if it's based on pure curiosity.

But are some of you actually feeling some sort of moral obligation to "pay off" some sort of financial debt just cause you received an orientation? This baffles me. It's a job. All you owe them is to show up, work hard and give a proper notice if you quit. My first job was in a local nursing home. I gave my two weeks two days after a month of orientation because I got a job offer at my current job making 4.00 more an hr. Should I have turned down a better opportunity in order to "pay back" my month of training?? Should I have cut them a check or something?? That seems absurd to me...

llg, PhD, RN

13,469 Posts

Specializes in Nursing Professional Development.

Yes, some people feel a moral obligation to be a good employee and "be worth" the investment that the employer has made in their education. They recognize that in accepting the offer of employment and "paid for" education, there is an implied agreement between the employer and the orientee. "The employer will provide free education and pay me a salary while I am being educated and in exchange, I will use that education to take care of their patients."

Many people also realize that when they leave a job too soon, they are developing a bad reputation for themselves among employers -- and if they do that very often, employers will stop wanting to hire them. Employers don't want to hire staff members who have a track record of taking the free education and experience, but leaving before they have worked enough to make that investment worthwhile for the people who paid for it. If enough people do that, employers stop offering the free education and/or stop hiring the classification of employees for whom the investment does not "pay off."

Now, I will concede that an employer who abuses the employees is not owed anything ... and I would not hesitate to leave an abusive employer ASAP ... but an employer who has treated me well deserves to be treated well in return.

It goes both ways. What goes around, comes around.

For me, it's not about morals but about my self interest. Nursing is a small community and my specialty is even smaller. I don't know what the future holds, who exactly my employer has relationships, or where my supervisors will end up working in a few years. But it wouldn't be unlikely for our paths to cross again at some point. So keeping my employer's concerns in mind isn't a moral issue for me but a pragmatic one that ultimately IS about what's best for me.

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