What if all docs had to nurses first????? - page 5

Really! I mean think about it..... what problems would this alleviate?? A friend and I were talking about this today. After hearing and reading so much about difficult doctors, wouldn't it be... Read More

  1. by   DavidFR
    Quote from AlaskanRN
    I have worked with two different doctors that were nurses first.

    So have I, and they were two entirely different experiences.

    One was very patient and always understood the nurses problems and point of view.
    The other was very patronising, with an atitude of "I've been in your shoes so don't tell me how how hard it is or that this isn't possible"

    I think at the end of the day, it's a queastion of individual personalities regardless of prior experiences.
  2. by   MultipurposeRN
    I worked a few weeks covering for a nurse that pre-rounded for the Hospitalists docs. Their case load was unbelievable. I went home aching all over every day, and I wore scrubs and waking shoes. The regular nurse usually wore street clothes and heels when she worked. I don't know how she did it. I had a greater respect for the patient load most doctors face after working with them..the pager going off every five minutes, the tremendous numbers of orders and progress notes to write, having to make instant decisions on a patient they may have only seen for a few minutes...
    On the other hand, why shouldn't medical students have a rotation where they go with nursing, lab, pharmacy, respiratory, etc.? It wouldn't have to be a long one, maybe one or two shifts each. Then they could see what the departments have to deal with, and why sometimes their orders may not be done instantly.
  3. by   OR1stRN
    Quote from Roland
    On top of that your average doctor would be 40 before they "graduated" from their residency. Also, don't forget that many of the "atheist", pinheaded, scientifically orientated docs look down upon much of nursing. If they even touched nursing they would consider themselves unclean!
    they'll have to go to a hospital someday..... hahahahahahaha
  4. by   OR1stRN
    Quote from sbic56
    Exactly! We could start a whole new thread about miserable nurse peers. And we already know there is no fixing them, so why the docs?
    I think I've had more nurses make me cry than doctors. In the OR, I teach the heirarchy:"Anesthesia gets the blame for everything unless there is a resident then he/she gets the blame and if there is a med student, it's all their fault." It's just in fun because as the circulator RN I am "responsible" for the room.

    I just love it when the new residents start in the ER in July (yes, the ER. I work both). One of the 3rd year residents saw me shaking my head at the newbie, and the newbie saw it, too. The newbie asked why and the 3rd year said, "She can tell you're new". I also tease them about how fresh they look the first week, clean shaven, pressed clothes and coats, full of energy. I tell them I can't wait to see them in a month when the "new" has worn off. I don't tell them what to do or order but ask gentle questions like, "Do you want to order ________?" or "Can I get _____ for you?" They appreciate it and in return, give me respect for being helpful without being condescending.
  5. by   orrnlori
    Quote from OR1stRN
    I think I've had more nurses make me cry than doctors. In the OR, I teach the heirarchy:"Anesthesia gets the blame for everything unless there is a resident then he/she gets the blame and if there is a med student, it's all their fault." It's just in fun because as the circulator RN I am "responsible" for the room.

    I just love it when the new residents start in the ER in July (yes, the ER. I work both). One of the 3rd year residents saw me shaking my head at the newbie, and the newbie saw it, too. The newbie asked why and the 3rd year said, "She can tell you're new". I also tease them about how fresh they look the first week, clean shaven, pressed clothes and coats, full of energy. I tell them I can't wait to see them in a month when the "new" has worn off. I don't tell them what to do or order but ask gentle questions like, "Do you want to order ________?" or "Can I get _____ for you?" They appreciate it and in return, give me respect for being helpful without being condescending.
    Yes, we call them "fresh meat". You are right about the order of blame in the OR, it's a hoot.
  6. by   OR1stRN
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    The current Chief of Staff at work used to be a nurse. She's one of the best, most compassionate, most enthusiastic doctors I've ever met, plus the nurses on the units she most closely associates with adore her. (Probably the docs hate her.)

    I love your idea. It would weed out some bad apples.
    I asked a surgeon once why did they insist on calling the med students "Dr.____". He said they have to get used to the idea that they are the doctor and they are the ones who have to know what to do, so from the moment they entered medical school they call them "doctors". Some of them just run with it.

    One med school I know of has a "white coat ceremony" where they "induct" all the 1st year med students into the medical community by putting their first white coat on them. Many community doctors attend, not just the medical school instructors. It's a big deal.
  7. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    PA's and doctors should get a "whiff" of what nurses do for a living. Not a nice sterile shadowing of an RN with an aid doing the dirty work but rather the whole experience.

    Anyone that's going to be writing orders should know how the order gets carried out and the problems with IVs, pharmacy, incompatabilities...etc, by DOING it. Anyone that's going to be in charge of a patient's care should be able to at least visualize how it gets done.

    The example of someone writing "IV fluids PRN" and not including information that the nurse needs to set it up, is an example of a doctor/student that doesn't have a visualization of what happends to that order after they write it. On the flip side, nurses should all get some time with PA's and doctors to understand why they take these issues for granted. Comparing course materials from all the schools to get an appreciation for what the others train for. I think both sides would be surprised at what the other does not train for.

    As for Roland's comment about atheistic. I believe he was getting at the stereotypical scientific-minded just-the-facts type A. An example of a person accepting Darwin's theory of natural selection with modification V. creationism. I personaly can't see why the two can't coexist because dating a fossil is still theoretical.
  8. by   critcarenurse16
    I think it would really open their eyes as to what we actually do. Most physicians think nurses give medication, take orders from the docs, and assist pt with ADL's. They are clueless otherwise!

    We had one fe doc who was a nurse and she was so bad I wondered how she got through school. She was intolerant, impatient, and flightly. Often she misplaced her pen only to find it behind her ear or under the chart she's looking through. This is out of the norm I from the earlier postings but its the only RN to Doc I know personally. One bad apple...
  9. by   sunnyjohn
    It might not be a bad idea ... as a co-req..... They would be better doctors...
  10. by   zenman
    Quote from AlaskanRN
    On the other hand, they sometimes are more of a nuisance when they are trying to do your job as well as their own. More than once I've wanted to tell them..."You do your part and I'll do mine and it will go much faster for everyone!" They sometimes revert back to their nursing days and get so caught up in pt care that the nurse is left with nothing to do and the doc is tied up way too long with the tasks that normally would be taken care of by the nurse (getting warm blankets, another pillow, a commode etc).
    I've had the same experience.
  11. by   Tony35NYC
    Most of the docs who work our unit are very respectful to the nursing staff because they understand that their job would be impossible without the nurses, and they also appreciate that when it comes to patient care our nursing staff totally kicks butt!

    Yes, there are a few nasty docs who come through now and then, but no one pays much attention to them. I honestly feel that people who chose to become doctors don't have what it takes to be a nurse and they probably wouldn't cut it even for one day working as a nurse. Doctors don't actually do anything, you know. They look at a patient for a couple minutes at most and that's their assessment. Then they write a page or two of orders (some of which make no sense). Then they disappear. Nurses do all the real work. I predict that in the future, medical doctors will be phased out (as a cost-saving measure) the delivery of healthcare will be controlled by ARNPs, RNs, and LPNs. Its just a matter of time before the HMOs start pushing for new legislation to change the system so they can save more money. After all, why pay an MD $200 an hour when they can pay an ARNP $45 an hour to do an even better job?
    Last edit by Tony35NYC on Feb 17, '05
  12. by   tridil2000
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    The current Chief of Staff at work used to be a nurse. She's one of the best, most compassionate, most enthusiastic doctors I've ever met, plus the nurses on the units she most closely associates with adore her. (Probably the docs hate her.)

    I love your idea. It would weed out some bad apples.
    one of our nurses is going to med school in september. she did very well on the mcats and then failed the cen!

    see, it is harder to be a nurse!
  13. by   ICUsleep
    Quote from Tony35NYC
    Doctors don't actually do anything, you know. They look at a patient for a couple minutes at most and that's their assessment. Then they write a page or two of orders (some of which make no sense). Then they disappear. Nurses do all the real work.
    Yikes. Do you honestly think that doctors "don't do anything" and that nurses do "all the real work"?
    It is a team effort. It is ALL "real work"!! You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and I can totally understand why some docs might not get along with you if you are openly that dismissive of what they do. :uhoh21:
    Tolerance and understanding have to flow both ways in order for them to occur.

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