What if all docs had to nurses first????? - page 4

Really! I mean think about it..... what problems would this alleviate?? A friend and I were talking about this today. After hearing and reading so much about difficult doctors, wouldn't it be... Read More

  1. by   canoehead
    I think nurses and docs shadowing each other in training is a wonderful idea. I don't think either of us knows enough about what the other is doing.
  2. by   Betty_SPN_KS
    Maybe wouldn't hurt to learn more about other departments too, like physical therapy, or whatever? Just a thought. I don't mean necessarily a full course, maybe a day or so of observation or shadowing.
  3. by   moia
    So far I have had the real priviledge to have helped train some really great docs. I worked in the CVICU as a RN for five years and dragged more than a few residents through the program.
    I have seen terrifed residents who were so scared they were really hostile. If you recognize anger equals fear you don't get very upset with them.
    I always made sure to walk them through everything we do especially the open chest procedure. I have had residents in tears and we have closed ranks and protected them for their entire shift.All I can do for the doc is try to point them in the right direction and correct their most obvious errors and support them the best I can while they learn.

    I recognize that some docs can be real jerks but I don't take it personally. They have no idea what I do for a living.
    Only once have I worked with a doc that was a nurse and he has been great fun. He actually helped me give my patient a bath and he was really funny folding the washcloth just like they taught us.
    I dont want docs to be nurses or nurses to be docs, we both have very different roles.
    What we really need is communication and understanding between all of us so we can work effectively as a team. I think nurses may have a larger amount of input because our practice covers a huge amount of the patient. We know about diet,skin,bowel and bladder,cognitive function and mobility just to name a few.

    Doctors should always use the RN as a resource for the complete assessment.
    Docs don't need to know how we get all our data they just need to pay strict attention to it.
    I dont want docs to be exposed to nursing because they may have a bad experience and get an opinion that can never be changed.
    More importantly I believe doctors want to be doctors and on the whole most nurses want to be nurses.
  4. by   Tweety
    I work with a great group of interns that bend over backwards to be friendly to nurses.

    Some nurses in return stick their noses up at them, ignore them when they are present or trying to ask them a question, roll their eyes at them, talk about "can you belief those silly residents", and generally make them feel like crap. Doesn't give them a good first impression of nurses.
  5. by   PA-C in Texas
    Quote from 3rdShiftGuy
    I work with a great group of interns that bend over backwards to be friendly to nurses.

    Some nurses in return stick their noses up at them, ignore them when they are present or trying to ask them a question, roll their eyes at them, talk about "can you belief those silly residents", and generally make them feel like crap. Doesn't give them a good first impression of nurses.

    That's really a shame because that can color your perception of the profession for years to come. I had a similar problem in my first job. The nurses acted like they knew everything and that I was only getting in the way. It got to the point that I had to remind them that even though it seemed we were on the same level, it only seemed that way. I am very open to suggestions and discussion about patient care, but do not presume for even an instant to take a condescending tone with me and tell me how to do my job. I have never even had a supervising physician get anywhere close to being cross with me, even though they could tell me to go jump in the lake if they wanted to, but those nurses sure did like to lecture me on things they knew very little about. Some of the things they would say were a little presumptive for only having an RN behind their names.

    Its all about how you approach someone. I have had nurses save my *** a couple times just like I have saved some of theirs', but they did so by approaching me with an attitude of mutual respect rather than condescention. But, if you do want to come jump down my throat or treat me like you wouldn't spit on me if I were burning, I will not hesitate to write it up and remind you that an associate's degree does not qualify you to question my MEDICAL judgment.

    The nurses I work with now are absolutely great (both LVN's and RN's), and I feel like I can rely on them to be my eyes and ears and direct me toward the important concerns that nurses often pick up on since they get to spend a little time with the patients.
  6. by   Betty_SPN_KS
    As far as rolling the eyes and calling people silly or stupid as soon as they leave or whatever, I see that happening more and more with people in general. Students, instructors, nurses, patients, aides and techs, and I'm sure docs, too, and with people in non-healthcare settings. Or maybe it's always been this way and I was sheltered from it.
  7. by   sbic56
    Quote from sharann
    I think that no matter what, some people are just plain rude, mean, insensetive or whatever...then, they become nurses, doctors, teachers, lawyers.....
    The two most caring and tolerant surgeons I ever worked with and saw in action in and out of the O.R, were former ORDERLIES before or in med school. They knew how long it really took to get a pt from their room to OR, helped transfer heavy pts, and even helped with prepping and IV starts. They are some kind of heroes to me.
    Exactly! We could start a whole new thread about miserable nurse peers. And we already know there is no fixing them, so why the docs?
  8. by   kimmicoobug
    I would like to follow around an MD for a couple of weeks. I think it would be give me a new understanding for their job. And yeah, I think it would be nice for an MD to shadow the nurses or maybe even RT for a few weeks. Case in point, I once got an order for Fentanyl IV over the phone, she called back 10 minutes later wanting to know how the patient tolerated it. Geez, I had to explain to her that I had pushed it just two minutes previously. She got snippy and wanted to know WHY it took so long. So, I told her that I had to sign the med out from the narc cupboard, find another nurse to watch me prepare and waste, and then push the med safely. Just little things like that the MD's have no clue about.
  9. by   fergus51
    I did shadow a doc for three days while in college. It's what made me decide nursing was a better fit for me. The doc job was so boring!!! So much paperwork and the visits were all very similar (he was a paediatrician). I thought it was more like an office job than anything else and applied to the nursing program the next day.
  10. by   NursesRmofun
    Quote from fergus51
    I did shadow a doc for three days while in college. It's what made me decide nursing was a better fit for me. The doc job was so boring!!! So much paperwork and the visits were all very similar (he was a paediatrician). I thought it was more like an office job than anything else and applied to the nursing program the next day.
    That is an interesting perspective. Since I have worked primarily hospital nursing, I have seen how hard some of the docs work...at least in the hospital where I work. They have to be on top of their game, see patients at the hospital before or after their day at the office, cover their group for their rotation on the weekend, etc., etc. It's a lot of responsibility. I don't think I'd consider it boring, though I do know what you mean. JMHO.
  11. by   smk1
    Quote from PA-C in Texas
    That's really a shame because that can color your perception of the profession for years to come. I had a similar problem in my first job. The nurses acted like they knew everything and that I was only getting in the way. It got to the point that I had to remind them that even though it seemed we were on the same level, it only seemed that way. I am very open to suggestions and discussion about patient care, but do not presume for even an instant to take a condescending tone with me and tell me how to do my job. I have never even had a supervising physician get anywhere close to being cross with me, even though they could tell me to go jump in the lake if they wanted to, but those nurses sure did like to lecture me on things they knew very little about. Some of the things they would say were a little presumptive for only having an RN behind their names.

    Its all about how you approach someone. I have had nurses save my *** a couple times just like I have saved some of theirs', but they did so by approaching me with an attitude of mutual respect rather than condescention. But, if you do want to come jump down my throat or treat me like you wouldn't spit on me if I were burning, I will not hesitate to write it up and remind you that an associate's degree does not qualify you to question my MEDICAL judgment.
    ok i appreciate the underlying message of your post and agree with much of what you said but just needed to point out that not all of the nurses have and associates degree, some have bachelors and some have masters (yes working the floor i know a few) anyway this still does not change the fact that your job entitles you to write the orders. but please realize that many many nurses have advanced education and some may have higher degrees in their chosen field than you or other pa-c's do in yours. (some PA's only have abachelors and RN they are talking to might have a masters, so becareful with the educational snobbery) Calling someone on what you think their educational level is is not cool.(especially when you may not even be right. ) everybody should show the appropriate respect to all of their coworkers regardless of their educational background.
  12. by   GracefulRN
    Quote from smkoepke
    ok i appreciate the underlying message of your post and agree with much of what you said but just needed to point out that not all of the nurses have and associates degree, some have bachelors and some have masters (yes working the floor i know a few) anyway this still does not change the fact that your job entitles you to write the orders. but please realize that many many nurses have advanced education and some may have higher degrees in their chosen field than you or other pa-c's do in yours. (some PA's only have abachelors and RN they are talking to might have a masters, so becareful with the educational snobbery) Calling someone on what you think their educational level is is not cool.(especially when you may not even be right. ) everybody should show the appropriate respect to all of their coworkers regardless of their educational background.

    AMEN. I think that is what this thread is all about. There has to be a way for us to promote professional understanding between nurses, PA's, RT's,pharmacist, ect., ect. so that we can optimize how we do what we do. Your post PA-C in Texas illustrates the basic problem. Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying you are the problem I am just stating that your feelings are, unfortunately, very common. I think that you will agree that ther is a certain degree of mistrust that each health profession has for the others, and the only way that I can think to resolve the issue is through joint efforts to understand each others work. I think that nurses shadowing doctors is an excellent idea, personally, I think that the more everyone (doctors, nurses,ect) know about each other's job, the easier it will be to foster mutual respect.
  13. by   missmercy
    Quote from GracefulRN
    AMEN. I think that is what this thread is all about. There has to be a way for us to promote professional understanding between nurses, PA's, RT's,pharmacist, ect., ect. so that we can optimize how we do what we do. Your post PA-C in Texas illustrates the basic problem. Please don't misunderstand, I am not saying you are the problem I am just stating that your feelings are, unfortunately, very common. I think that you will agree that ther is a certain degree of mistrust that each health profession has for the others, and the only way that I can think to resolve the issue is through joint efforts to understand each others work. I think that nurses shadowing doctors is an excellent idea, personally, I think that the more everyone (doctors, nurses,ect) know about each other's job, the easier it will be to foster mutual respect.
    Well said! We are all in this ( at least in premis) for the patient's best interest. To truly accomplish the best care for our patients, we've gotta play nicely together!! I amde sure that I followed a tech, and ER nurse, a surgery process, an outpatient lab tech, the patient flow coordinator, and the cath lab etc.... to have a functional knowledge of how the pieces fit and worked together at this facility -- was truly an eye opener and exposed how some of the distrust or disgruntled behaviors are rooted in a lack of knowledge about what the other team members do!!

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