Treating the Muslim patient

[Inspired By Silence]

I'm still in my nursing prerequsite phase of college, but I have some concerns about treating Muslim patients and would like some clarification. I'm very eager to make sure my patients are comfortable with the level of care I provide and are comfortable with my role as a MALE nurse.

Now, my first concern is that Muslims do not believe males should handle the role of the nurse and thus refuse to be treated by male nurses. Is this true? If so, how can I handle such a situation should it present itself?

Should the above statement be false and Muslims do appreciate male nurses, what are their strict standards for giving them intimate care such as sponge baths and foley catheters? Do male and female Muslims have different requirements for their care?

What other situations involve carefulness so as to avoid disrespecting their sensitive beliefs? Anything particular involving pediatric Muslim patients?

I hope you can see that I want to come off as culturally competent and do not want to cause embarrassment or disrespect to any of my future patients. Part of the reason I'm taking a class on ASL and deaf culture.

[MattiesMama]

I think the complexities that have come up with providing culturally competent care are really just an outgrowth of this hole switch to a "customer focused" health care paradigm. The hole thing is nonsense really! I think wherever possible guide your actions with respect. But having said that, we are highly trained health care professionals providing life or death skills to patients; we are not diplomats. I wish that just for once the PhD's that develop these so called "theories" would remember the reality of their bedside nursing days/experiences. There just simply isn't time for this kind of concerns when you are spending 50%+ of your shift doing paper charting when your hospital probably should have made the switch to more efficient electronic charting years ago!!!

I just think health care has become so dysfunctional in general; particularly because of this "customer" crap! Nurse managers are really glorified puppets for MDs and PhDs above them. Its sad really. Lord help me if I ever become one of them if I pursue further graduate studies; in fact, one of the things stopping me is that I don't want to walk around with the "head in the sand (or up my ...)" attitude that they all seem to exude, forever ignoring the very real concerns of the bedside nurse.

It takes 2 seconds to ask a patient if they have any cultural or spiritual preferences, and most can be easily accomadated. And it can make a huge difference in thier overall experience. Regardless of what paradigm the concept arises from, wouldn't you want to make your patient feel comfortable?

(BTW, it's spelled whole)

[Cinquefoil]

I wish that just for once the PhD's that develop these so called "theories" would remember the reality of their bedside nursing days/experiences. There just simply isn't time for this kind of concerns when you are spending 50%+ of your shift doing paper charting when your hospital probably should have made the switch to more efficient electronic charting years ago!!!

I just think health care has become so dysfunctional in general; particularly because of this "customer" crap! Nurse managers are really glorified puppets for MDs and PhDs above them. Its sad really. Lord help me if I ever become one of them if I pursue further graduate studies; in fact, one of the things stopping me is that I don't want to walk around with the "head in the sand (or up my ...)" attitude that they all seem to exude, forever ignoring the very real concerns of the bedside nurse.

Nothing excuses ANYONE forgetting the reality of bedside care.

I think I'm starting to see what you mean. Are you saying that, due to the insanity of workload combined with out-of-touch policy-makers, you are expected to provide a quantity of care that you already have to be damn good to provide......and then also expected to be social worker, chaplain, and PR rep on top of that, all rolled into one?

[shanez]

you may find this helpful

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-dow6qxrqy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvmp3ocotly

[mhatter51]

I think the complexities that have come up with providing culturally competent care are really just an outgrowth of this hole switch to a "customer focused" health care paradigm. The hole thing is nonsense really! I think wherever possible guide your actions with respect. But having said that, we are highly trained health care professionals providing life or death skills to patients; we are not diplomats. I wish that just for once the PhD's that develop these so called "theories" would remember the reality of their bedside nursing days/experiences. There just simply isn't time for this kind of concerns when you are spending 50%+ of your shift doing paper charting when your hospital probably should have made the switch to more efficient electronic charting years ago!!!

I just think health care has become so dysfunctional in general; particularly because of this "customer" crap! Nurse managers are really glorified puppets for MDs and PhDs above them. Its sad really. Lord help me if I ever become one of them if I pursue further graduate studies; in fact, one of the things stopping me is that I don't want to walk around with the "head in the sand (or up my ...)" attitude that they all seem to exude, forever ignoring the very real concerns of the bedside nurse.

You complain that the managers ignore the concerns of the bedside nurse. It seems to me that your violent reaction to treating patients as customers shows that you choose to ignore the concerns of your patients. The nurse's concerns should never come before the patient's concerns... You need to reprioritize.

I don't think you need to worry about being promoted unless you are able to hide your hostility.

[giveface]

You complain that the managers ignore the concerns of the bedside nurse. It seems to me that your violent reaction to treating patients as customers shows that you choose to ignore the concerns of your patients. The nurse's concerns should never come before the patient's concerns... You need to reprioritize.

I don't think you need to worry about being promoted unless you are able to hide your hostility.

First of all, I must say I think this is quite presumptuous of you. You don't know me, you don't know how I nurse, you have not witnessed my practice in a clinical setting; so, I believe it is unfair of you to attempt to judge how I arrange my clinical priorities. Patients do always come first, however, if you do not practice self-care how can one look after the more needy? That is not something we do well in the nursing profession. We have to remember we have realistic needs too if patients are ever to really come first.

You have the right to your own opinion. I think here you have missed my point and chosen instead to attack someone you don't know.

And furthermore, where did I indicate that I was seeking promotion? I have absolutely zero interest in being a nurse manager, in fact I don't know how some of these "managers" sleep at night. I have every interest in propelling my education away from nursing. I stated that I have no intention of getting my PhD in nursing simply to perpetuate the dysfunctional policies that these people continue to put out in the nursing universe, instead of focusing their efforts to lobbying persons in positions of influence and power to ease the staff nurses' workload.

[giveface]

Nothing excuses ANYONE forgetting the reality of bedside care.

I think I'm starting to see what you mean. Are you saying that, due to the insanity of workload combined with out-of-touch policy-makers, you are expected to provide a quantity of care that you already have to be damn good to provide......and then also expected to be social worker, chaplain, and PR rep on top of that, all rolled into one?

In essence yes that is what I'm saying. I am just pointing out that there is already an UNREALISTIC amount of work pilled onto the clinical RNs plate, and that we are not there to be puppets to a public that is becoming increasingly, perhaps illogically consumed with political correctness. For the record, I see the reason behind ensuring that someone is made comfortable in regards to their religious or cultural backgrouds, I just feel that there could be someone else hired/position created to do it.

[Cul2]

"I see the reason behind ensuring that someone is made comfortable in regards to their religious or cultural backgrouds, I just feel that there could be someone else hired/position created to do it."

I don't quite understand your statement. People are different. They come from different backgrounds. They've had different experiences that have made them who they are and contribute to how the feel emotionally about different issues.

It almost sounds like we have two lines -- one for people who are all the same and can be treated all the same way, comfort-wise; and then another line for people who are all different and need special consideration, comfort-wise. And, we hire a special group of providers for that second line.

It seems to me that one of the challenges of any people-oriented service requires the recognition that people are different. One size doesn't fit all, regardless of what management or the efficiency experts might want. Although teachers follow a "curriculum," to be effective they must realize that people learn at different rates and in different ways. Healthcare providers must realize that, too, to be effective. Now, whether a particular medical "system" is constructed in such a way to allow that kind of consideration -- that's connected to whether that institution really believes in it's mission statement and core values, or if those statements are just lip service.

The above statement is in complete support of working conditions for nurses that allow them to do what they know they must do in the way they know they must do it.

[giveface]

I don't quite understand your statement.

If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but I'm unsure how I could make my statement any clearer. I believe I made my position clear. Please re-read my post.

[Cul2]

"If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but I'm unsure how I could make my statement any clearer. I believe I made my position clear. Please re-read my post."

In my last post, I tried to sum up my understanding of your statement. If my summary

is correct, than, yes, I don't agree with your opinion. If my summary is incorrect, then I

was hoping you would help clarify my misunderstanding. It appears, though, from your

comment above, that my summary was correct and we can just agree to disagree. Is

that a correct assessment?

[giveface]

"If you don't agree with my opinion that is fine, but I'm unsure how I could make my statement any clearer. I believe I made my position clear. Please re-read my post."

In my last post, I tried to sum up my understanding of your statement. If my summary

is correct, than, yes, I don't agree with your opinion. If my summary is incorrect, then I

was hoping you would help clarify my misunderstanding. It appears, though, from your

comment above, that my summary was correct and we can just agree to disagree. Is

that a correct assessment?

Yes we can agree to disagree.

Thank you for being respectful of my position.

[skylark, BSN, RN]

Two issues (I work in a downtown ER, where the majority of the local population are muslim, and only a small proportion speak English) -

One - confidentiality. From what I understand, women are basically property, and as such are not allowed out alone. They are chaperoned, by a relative at all times. Few speak a word of English, because they don't talk to anyone outside their family.

So what do you do when you need to assess them?

Iterpreters aren't always available, and rarely female ones, the male ones are rejected by the family. So you use a relative to get their history, but what about the gynae part and reproductive history? Most we see have been mutilated, but this is always denied by the family. Also you rely on the relative to translate correctly, and so often they answer themsleves, they do not even bother to address your questions to the patient. What if there is something the patient wants to mention but not with a relative present?

What do others do, we find it a major problem here.

Second - I have no problem with muslim coworkers having regular prayer times during the day, that is acceptable in any faith.

But what about those who adhere to strict times. I have had docs walk away in a code because it is prayer time, one time no fewer than three of my coworkers left a code at once, leaving me alone.

I think that is wrong.

Has that happened to anyone else?

What did you do?

[Stephanita]

holy ignorance, batman!

it has nothing to do with their views of gender roles, it is about their views of modesty.