Some questions for all the nurses - page 2

BSN nurses would you be happy with the LPN, RN, BSN etc, if You had something more to show for you degree? What I mean is this . What if when you graduated their was a destiction between a four,two... Read More

  1. by   RNIAM
    So you put a name in fornt of your nursing title then. Irt was a suggestion. I don't have all the answers that is why I ask the questions. I think this is a solvable issue but not by everyone becomming a BSN. I think compensation,new titles,and tougher testing for BSN grads etc is the way to go. It seems like a good alternative since we all know the money will never be there to educate everyone for free.
  2. by   RNIAM
    oops sorry I just wanted to add that all other BSN graduates in other proffesions do make better money when they start. This is a perk to the higher education.
  3. by   RNIAM
    oh crud I just meant Bachelors
  4. by   mattsmom81
    I've done some soul searching about this BSN vs ADN/Diploma and I've found that over the years, I GENERALLY PREFER orienting and working with ADN/Diploma nurses BECAUSE they know their way around a unit and it's a much easier transition from student to RN.

    BSN programs seem to stress theory over practice...claiming tasking can be learned later (and it CAN, but it may be a burden on the staff who have to provide the OJT on the units)...and can foster resentment from overworked understaffed nurses.

    I (and my coworkers) have found quite a bit of 'elitism' expressed by many BSN grads... I suspect they have been told they are somehow 'better' than us lowly diploma/ADN's. We sense this many of their attitudes; some just come right out and say it! We can still provide a good basic orientation for these 'attitudes' but I can predict they won't be well loved on the unit. Then the complaints of 'eating' will come...<sigh>

    I agree that THIS factor alone has done much professional harm to us as a group, ...and contributes to tension in the ranks when the degree is deemed 'better' than many years of experience.

    This is a tough subject and tensions run high when we discuss this...but honestly? I would be steaming mad if I had to orient and precept a new grad BSN who made more $$$ than me. That is just plain WRONG, IMO. (I'm an old Diploma grad)

    I totally agree, Renee, we all passed boards and if we're doing the same job it's hard to justify more money for those who simply paid more for their nursing education... if they aren't DOING more with it.

    I DO support extra money for extra duties (like charge and precepting) and for certifications that allow additional responsibilities to be added ie CCRN who presents critical care forums to new staff members one evening a week, etc. (I have enjoyed doing this ) Also a CEN who organizes a new hire educational packet for the ER. Those sorts of 'extra' things. Even committee work activities could warrant a raise, IMO.

    A critical care Texas LVN with 20 years experience may have a higher base salary than a new grad RN in many instances...and I support this because the critical care competent LVN can do everything the RN can do ( in my ICU ) 'cept charge. (And I get a buck extra for that.) So why shouldn't he/she make decent money? I'm glad Texas recognizes a good LVN's value.

    But then again, I admit I value experience and competency over education alone. Many disagree with me on this, and that's OK.

    :roll
    Last edit by mattsmom81 on Jul 19, '02
  5. by   live4today
    Originally posted by mattsmom81
    I've done some soul searching about this BSN vs ADN/Diploma and I've found that over the years, I GENERALLY PREFER orienting and working with ADN/Diploma nurses BECAUSE they know their way around a unit and it's a much easier transition from student to RN.

    BSN programs seem to stress theory over practice...claiming tasking can be learned later (and it CAN, but it may be a burden on the staff who have to provide the OJT on the units)...and can foster resentment from overworked understaffed nurses.

    I (and my coworkers) have found quite a bit of 'elitism' expressed by many BSN grads... I suspect they have been told they are somehow 'better' than us lowly diploma/ADN's. We sense this many of their attitudes; some just come right out and say it! We can still provide a good basic orientation for these 'attitudes' but I can predict they won't be well loved on the unit. Then the complaints of 'eating' will come...<sigh>

    I agree that THIS factor alone has done much professional harm to us as a group, ...and contributes to tension in the ranks when the degree is deemed 'better' than many years of experience.

    This is a tough subject and tensions run high when we discuss this...but honestly? I would be steaming mad if I had to orient and precept a new grad BSN who made more $$$ than me. That is just plain WRONG, IMO. (I'm an old Diploma grad)

    I totally agree, Renee, we all passed boards and if we're doing the same job it's hard to justify more money for those who simply paid more for their nursing education... if they aren't DOING more with it.

    I DO support extra money for extra duties (like charge and precepting) and for certifications that allow additional responsibilities to be added ie CCRN who presents critical care forums to new staff members one evening a week, etc. (I have enjoyed doing this ) Also a CEN who organizes a new hire educational packet for the ER. Those sorts of 'extra' things. Even committee work activities could warrant a raise, IMO.

    A critical care Texas LVN with 20 years experience may have a higher base salary than a new grad RN in many instances...and I support this because the critical care competent LVN can do everything the RN can do ( in my ICU ) 'cept charge. (And I get a buck extra for that.) So why shouldn't he/she make decent money? I'm glad Texas recognizes a good LVN's value.

    But then again, I admit I value experience and competency over education alone. Many disagree with me on this, and that's OK.

    :roll
    mattsmom.......very well said, and I agree wholeheartedly, especially about valuing experience and competency over education alone. :kiss
  6. by   Burn NA
    I have one BS degree & am now working on a BSN degree. I am very happy with my choice to go for the second degree. It has enabled me to become involved in research & work as an assistant under a PhD/RN doing some very exciting work. When I graduate, I will be published in several journals. Additionally, I am more informed about biobehavioral/biological research in nursing & have been exposed to several journals/readings/new ideas. In short, the educational opportunities have made the BSN road worth it. It has exposed me to issues beyond those taught to us in nursing school, and has helped shape future career plans (ie. plans for graduate school/NP route & involvement in research).

    As for the clinical skills, these can be enhanced by working as a nursing assistant. I have done so for 3 months (telemetry, med-surg), and will work in a burn unit for the next year. It is difficult to work while in school, but the skills learned are important & will improve my professionalism & marketablility once I graduate.

    There is more to getting a BSN than many people realize, I think. More doors open, more opportunities are available. Thanks.



  7. by   fergus51
    Alright, this is exactly why I think there should only be one route for RNs (and one for LPNs who have their own separate body). Here in BC, the Bachelor's is becoming the minimum, but it wasn't a big shift because we only have BSN and Diploma programs. The first three years are exactly the same, the BSN students just do a fourth year, so they actually get more clinical which we all seem to want. I am hopeful that it will decrease the bickering and make it simpler for the general public to understand what a "nurse" is.

    I get paid 50$ extra per pay period for having my BSN and I don't see anything wrong with that. Yes, we all do the same job, but that argument could be used to say that a nurse with 20 years experience shouldn't expect to be making more money than me, which is silly. I think we should get something extra for each year of experience and for our level of education in nursing.
  8. by   Fgr8Out
    First of all....

    RIGHT ON CHEERFULDOER!!!!

    Now if only we could come up with a Program that taught Nurses how to spell.... Much of what I see on this site is deplorable. And we call ourselves Professional?

    As another Nurse already stated, "just my opinion."

    Peace
  9. by   Debbielynn
    I agree with Cheerfuldoer! Even though I am just beginning my LPN school, I plan on going further to get my RN Assoc. Like teachers, doctors, etc. its not the diploma that makes a great nurse! I plan on being a great RN assoc. And it has nothing to do with how long I went to school. Yeah, some of you might know alot more than me when I am done with school, but it doesn't always make that person a better Nurse. It simply means you have more knowledge than me. I would rather be remembered as a fantastic nurse who cared, and always was willing to help everyone, than being know as how much hours I spent in school!
  10. by   RNIAM
    Although I agree with some of everyone on here has psoted. I for one don't care about the spelling. I am sure,we will all make sure our t's are crossed and our I's are dotted when we chart. this is a bulletin board last time I checked. Am I being graded now?
    I believe a 4 year program deserves a higher start pay only if the boards that they have to pass are at a higher level, befitting the higher education.
  11. by   Grace Oz
    This ol argument has been going on for years now.
    University V hospital trained nurses.
    There's only one truly accurate, cost effective , thorough, unifying way to train nurses.
    IN A HOSPITAL!!
    Have you ever heard of a chef NOT having "on the job" training?!...
    Cheerfuldoer, I SO enjoy your posts! :-)
    Cheers from "Down Under",
    Grace.
    PS: You'd better watch out, they're recruiting here & you could end up with a bunch of Aussies
    working alongside you! CRIKEY MATE !!
  12. by   mattsmom81
    Come on over, Grace! We'd LOVE to have ya!
  13. by   nursecheryl
    I agree with cheerfuldoer. I'm working on my BSN but do not feel that having a BSN makes you any better than a diploma or ADN. If you do more with your BSN than you deserve more money, but if you work at the same place doing the same job it dosen't make sence. Most places I have worked I have made the same amount of money as other nurses with higher degrees and same experience. One place they paid .50 cents more per hour and called a nurse with BSN a clinical nurse. If you with a diploma or ADN did a research project related to the unit you worked and became a resource person in this area teaching it to other nurses you became recognized as a clinical nurse in title and in pay. Most of us did do this to get the higher title. It was great experience. The hospital also gave you classes to prepare you in how to do research and set up forums. It was fun and a great experience.

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