Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support moving forward - pg.7 | allnurses

Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support moving forward - page 7

Many people have a misunderstanding that if the government funds health care then THEY control our health care - a concept which in all reality is impossible. What they do provide is funding for... Read More

  1. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    1
    http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/08...y5268079.shtml

    Section 431(a) of the bill says that the IRS must divulge taxpayer identity information, including the filing status, the modified adjusted gross income, the number of dependents, and "other information as is prescribed by" regulation. That information will be provided to the new Health Choices Commissioner and state health programs and used to determine who qualifies for "affordability credits."

    Section 245(b)(2)(A) says the IRS must divulge tax return details -- there's no specified limit on what's available or unavailable -- to the Health Choices Commissioner. The purpose, again, is to verify "affordability credits."

    Section 1801(a) says that the Social Security Administration can obtain tax return data on anyone who may be eligible for a "low-income prescription drug subsidy" but has not applied for it.

    So with this government health care plan, you have money in your account that you are using to support your family and you have a large medical bill, the government will decide if you can afford it. If you say you can't they will look at your tax return.
    NurseForChange likes this.
  2. Visit  boynurse2 profile page
    2
    There are so many problems with this and I don't know where to start!
    Many of you speak of having paid nothing or very little for care but do not know of the actual cost paid. The "low cost" of doctor visits and meds can spiral the costs higher for all of the tax payers involved. The low cost promotes abuse of frequent users. I know this relative that would take her kids to the doctor for hiccups, etc. the first day of symptoms every time because she did not have to pay a co-pay(medicaid). Now she has to pay a $20 co-pay and only takes her kids when necessary. The doctor still collects the $60 for the visit in both scenarios paid by all the tax payers.

    An earlier thread gave a great example of government run programs: post office, VA, medicaid, etc.
    Need I say more? Any government run program has run a muck in inefficiency, poor service, and high costs! The post office used to receive complaints on long waits. The post office remedied this by removing the clocks in the lobbies- great solutions eh? Look at Social Security- see it under FICA on your checks- that's federal income contribution act, a "tax you pay and cannot get back or write off.
    NurseForChange and Ginger's Mom like this.
  3. Visit  hypocaffeinemia profile page
    2
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    No, I don't think it is government's job to provide healthcare. I don't think it is government's job to provide food, I don't think it is government's job to provide housing.

    There is nothing in the Constitution to provide healthcare. I don't want to pay taxes to support other people health care and I don't want other people making decisions for me.

    The government in my opinion does a lousy job adminstrating any program.
    You just sidestepped the argument entirely.

    The Constitution is not a perfect and timeless document. It was made by men and as such, will be flawed. It does say the government was established to "promote the general welfare"; however, Constitution or not, it comes down to this: Do you believe that humans deserve adequate healthcare?

    If you don't, that's your right. It's a horribly unethical position, in my opinion, but at least you would be logically consistent.

    If, however, you believe that humans do deserve adequate healthcare, it is logically inconsistent to deny it to them in all but EMTALA required cases.

    And if you believe the goverment does a lousy job administrating any program, certainly you would be better off with with anarchy, I take it?
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  4. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    1
    I believe in keeping government as small as possible and putting government in the business of health care for me would be an intrusion. We have the best health care in my opinion.

    In a perfect world every human being would get health care. Every person would be fed. Diseases would be eliminated.

    Right now I am paying for people who never worked a day in the United States to get health care. I was in the pharmacy the other day and a customer was complaining about the dollar co - pay they had to pay ( Medicaid), yet they were buying cigarettes and expensive cosmetics. They drove away in an expensive car. I am paying for this.
    NMiller1 likes this.
  5. Visit  Hushdawg profile page
    2
    Quote from NMiller1
    For anyone who is not a US citizen. Please (respectfully) - mind your own business as you don't have a dog in this fight. Our forefathers left tyrannical rule many years ago so that their descendants could live FREE. You may not be able to understand how much we cherish that freedom.
    Especially considering that all the foreign voices I've seen here are from those correcting misconceptions and erroneous statements about how their healthcare system works.

    They may not have a "dog in the fight" but they do have the right to correct misinformation.
    Last edit by madwife2002 on Aug 29, '09 : Reason: PM sent
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  6. Visit  Hushdawg profile page
    0
    Quote from NMiller1
    Can you name the third largest employer in the WORLD? Wal-mart? - No, the US government? - NO.... it is the British National Health Care System. THIRD LARGEST EMPLOYER IN THE WORLD!!! Are you kidding me??? With that fine distinction, you'd think everyone on the planet would be breaking down doors to access this ... must be..... best service in the world!!! People are doing that - aren't they?
    ........... oh, but if the US ends up stuck with our current leaders plans for our future,.... I'm sure We will make it to #1.
    (God forbid...........)
    I fail to see why a well-staffed healthcare network is a bad thing.
  7. Visit  Hushdawg profile page
    1
    Quote from tewdles
    i ask myself, what choices did this young man have? How did our current system of healthcare delivery benefit him? It certainly preserved his life at the same time that it devastated him financially. My question is....don't you agree that we can do better?
    yes we can!!!
    Yes we can!!!
    Yes we can!!!
    PediMommy likes this.
  8. Visit  Hushdawg profile page
    2
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    I don't want other people making decisions for me.
    Too bad, under the current system insurance companies make decisions for you all the time in determining what qualifies and what does not for coverage. They do it based on profit margins, if health care was socialized then it would be on the basis of need and medical assessment; doesn't that sound like a more appropriate litmus test?

    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    The government in my opinion does a lousy job adminstrating any program.
    So you don't trust the government to do anything under any administration?

    I trust government to change as the will and need of the people change.
    I trust that under the current system people will continue to suffer and die.
    We must change things in order to improve them.
    Yes, Medicare and Medicaid are cumbersome and difficult to deal with.
    Yes, VA hospitals are grossly underfunded.
    Yes, Military healthcare is slow to secondary recipients.
    That is all true.
    However, those systems will no longer be needed under a universal healthcare program.
    Wipe off the board and rebuild a newer, better structure.

    Change is the only thing that can help us to progress.
    Healthcare as it is only serves the wealthy and middle class. I have had more interviews than I care to remember or relate of families all over the USA who appeal for financial assistance; all of whom ran into bankruptcy and lost their homes because of medical bills.
    This is not freedom that my ancestors fought and died for
    Last edit by madwife2002 on Aug 29, '09 : Reason: PM sent
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  9. Visit  Hushdawg profile page
    0
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    I believe in keeping government as small as possible and putting government in the business of health care for me would be an intrusion. We have the best health care in my opinion.
    Your opinion is wrong. Sorry to say you are sorely misled. The US healthcare system is among the worst of industrialized nations according to WHO's 2000 study: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

    New York times also will show how misplaced your faith in the current US healthcare system is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    In a perfect world every human being would get health care.
    Then let's build a perfect world.
  10. Visit  NickB profile page
    1
    Quote from TakeBack
    The problem with this thinking:

    The economic structure dictates that there will ALWAYS be a segment of ther workforce that makes LESS than what is necessary for premiums and out of pocket costs. For every worker who "finds better work", another will replace them. We never lose that steady supply of low income workers who cannot afford premiums or are underinsured. These folks who can barely afford the premiums, by definition, will hardly afford the deductible.

    To paint them all as lazy and unmotivated is a judgment call on your part, and a terribly uneducated one at that.

    Second, "rationing" occurs now on the basis of who can pay and who can't. So swaths of americans go without basic preventive care, immunizations, meds etc b/c they can't afford it. And news flash- it's not becuase they're all buying iphones instead.

    I am required to buy auto insurance to drive; going without health insurance places a burden on fellow americans by way of increased taxes and premiums. There is direct and indirect harm in both cases.
    Have you seen this first hand? Because I have been privy to it for the last 3 months. I have been doing work for a very large city building department that is using government money to rehab peoples houses. I have a contract with the city to perform the work, the city pays me, and the people get it done for free. The entire street (roughly 50 houses) has at least two cars in every driveway. (cadillacs and some other very nice cars. My truck is a piece of crap by the way). People are home all day long. They all are out front at some point on cell phones. Everyone has tv's that you can hear through their doors. The son of the elderly lady we are doing work for moved ALL of the furniture out of her house and into the storage POD. He has been there everyday through the process. I finally asked him the other day what he does. He tells me he's on disability and used to work at a bread company. I then hear him on the phone talking about his medicaid. There is nothing phisically wrong with him. (Remember all of the stuff he moved) He can drive. (I have seen it myself) He does nothing but sit on his butt all day long and live off of the government. Don't tell me I have made a terribly uneducated judgement call. I have seen it first hand. And he is only one example of many that I can tell you about just from this three month long job. By the way, he does have an Iphone, which is WAY nicer than my phone. But guess what, while he has all of this nice stuff; my wife, my son, and I all have health insurance because I have made that a priority.
    Ginger's Mom likes this.
  11. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    0
    Quote from Hushdawg
    Your opinion is wrong. Sorry to say you are sorely misled. The US healthcare system is among the worst of industrialized nations according to WHO's 2000 study: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

    New York times also will show how misplaced your faith in the current US healthcare system is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html



    Then let's build a perfect world.
    I personally do not put too much stock in WHO data or the NY Times. Why don't you start building a perfect world where you live now and the US can copy it!
  12. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    1
    Quote from Hushdawg
    That's pretty damn condescending. Especially considering that all the foreign voices I've seen here are from those correcting misconceptions and erroneous statements about how their healthcare system works.

    They may not have a "dog in the fight" but they do have the right to correct misinformation.
    Interesting, you do not live in the USA, but what to tell me how much I need to pay in taxes. I have had a personal incident with a socialize healthcare, so I know how bad and how long the consequences of bad care can be. I rather face bankruptcy and live then die.

    Many people who have filed for bankruptcy lived why beyond their means. Now you want me to pay for their irresponsible behavior.
    NMiller1 likes this.
  13. Visit  NMiller1 profile page
    1
    I must tell you that responses to my argument have 1. made me laugh - and laughter is great medicine. AND 2. If you haven't lived in a society where you have the type of freedom to succeed or fail like the U.S = I knew you just wouldn't get it. AND 3. You may think me condescending, but I treasure what my forefathers did for me - the Constitution is NOT a malleable document. It is the core of Americans beliefs in this country. We do frown on those who want to do things that are unconstitutional.
    Ginger's Mom likes this.


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