Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support Moving Forward

Many people have a misunderstanding that if the government funds health care then THEY control our health care - a concept which in all reality is impossible. What they do provide is funding for hospitals and any facility that delivers health care. It's up to the facilities to decide how to spend the funds allocated to them. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

They will run things as they do now except they would have a lot more input and would not be controlled by the insurance companies as they are today.

There would be a department within the Government whose main task would be to establish performance-improving strategies for the hospitals and a timeline for them to be met. Guidelines would be implemented for hospitals to follow and protocols would be initiated by the hospital itself to help them achieve the goals set out by the government. The aim being that care will be standardized across the country. This meaning that hospitals who provide substandard care now will be expected to improve their standards of care in the future. Of course, this would not be achieved quickly nor would it happen overnight, and yes it would cost money, but in the long run, it would be cost effective. The main aim is to improve the quality of care to the patient and at the same time establishing across the board initiatives which all hospitals would need to follow in order to ensure all hospitals are providing the same standard and quality of care. Independent companies would be established to govern the government for example in the UK they have an independent company known as NICE,

Quote
"NICE is an independent organization responsible for providing national guidance on promoting good health and preventing and treating"

More emphasis would be made on care in the community, focusing on keeping the chronically ill out of the hospital and in their own homes. Health education would play a major role focusing on prevention rather than cure. For example, some of our expensive hospital beds are often taken up with the chronically ill which could well have been managed in their own home, freeing up valuable nursing time which can now be spent with the acutely ill. Opening up more opportunities for nurses to develop their skills and utilize their education for something other than carrying out orders from Doctors

NICE | The National Institute for Health and Care Excellence

Diabetes can be effectively managed in the home with a team of skilled health professionals, accessing the hospitals for major illnesses rather than glucose control. Nurses could play a major role with diabetics in the community, after all, a large part of our formal nursing education focuses on health education, which a lot of us struggle to find time to implement in the hospital environment

Patients will be more compliant with their medication because it is now affordable. They would not be worrying shall I pay the bills or shall I pay for my medication. This would mean Asthmatics, Diabetics, COPDers wouldn't be having the same crisis situations finding themselves in hospital costing a fortune.

Of course, there will always be non-compliant patients, this group will never change easily, but my question is would we see a reduction in non-compliant patients if we made medication affordable. If we had no co-pays for hospital, tests, procedures, scans or doctors visits? My guess is yes we would see a reduction because some of those non-compliant patients are in this situation through no fault of their own but because of financial constraints either due to a poorly paid job or their pension doesn't quite cover everything they need.

Health professionals could more readily access the schools, youth groups with a lot more health education, again focusing on prevention rather than cure. "Catch em, Young".

I am sure you will be saying to yourself we have all this anyway yes but it would be "free" to establishments affording them to spend their funds elsewhere within the education system but at the same time ensuring we start our children's knowledge of a healthy lifestyle off earlier.

Everybody could afford to be pregnant and access high-quality pregnancy care. It would not only be the rich who are able to afford expensive pre-natal care, classes and education it would be available to all without further cost. Pregnancy care is an ideal opportunity for health care professionals to discuss dental care, diet, smoking cessation, birth control, pap smears the list is endless of what you could provide in health education to the younger generation which they can take through life. This population has probably had not much in the way of health care since their teenage years so are ripe for further education, again focusing on prevention rather than cure.

Of course, we all have heard the horror stories of the NHS there are plenty of them, there are more of the negative kind than the positive kind mainly because we focus in on the negative more readily. The Media are only too happy to report stories which involve sensationalism and negative press than to focus in on the 'nice' stories because 'nice' stories don't sell newspapers. Have you always noticed how bad press is always top of the news whereas the nicer stories are thrown In at the end?

The UK is one small country, whereas the 50 states of America are almost like 50 countries so if we took all the negative press in one day from each of the states of America it would be interesting to see/read how many horror stories we would find from the current medical health care system in the USA. Then we could compare the horror stories to the ones reported from the UK then correlate the figures to establish which country offers greater health care and what cost.

Remember the people who pay insurance here in America it will not cost you any more money unless you choose to take out private health insurance. The difference is it will not cost you one cent more unlike now where there are numerous co-pays for anything you access.

Think about it NO co-pays for:

  • Doctors Visits
  • Blood Draws/lab work
  • Mammograms
  • Pap smears
  • Children's immunizations and check-ups
  • Emergency room visits
  • OT
  • PT
  • Speech and language therapy

The list is endless.

i ask myself, what choices did this young man have? How did our current system of healthcare delivery benefit him? It certainly preserved his life at the same time that it devastated him financially. My question is....don't you agree that we can do better?

yes we can!!!

Yes we can!!!

Yes we can!!!

I don't want other people making decisions for me.

Too bad, under the current system insurance companies make decisions for you all the time in determining what qualifies and what does not for coverage. They do it based on profit margins, if health care was socialized then it would be on the basis of need and medical assessment; doesn't that sound like a more appropriate litmus test?

The government in my opinion does a lousy job adminstrating any program.

So you don't trust the government to do anything under any administration?

I trust government to change as the will and need of the people change.

I trust that under the current system people will continue to suffer and die.

We must change things in order to improve them.

Yes, Medicare and Medicaid are cumbersome and difficult to deal with.

Yes, VA hospitals are grossly underfunded.

Yes, Military healthcare is slow to secondary recipients.

That is all true.

However, those systems will no longer be needed under a universal healthcare program.

Wipe off the board and rebuild a newer, better structure.

Change is the only thing that can help us to progress.

Healthcare as it is only serves the wealthy and middle class. I have had more interviews than I care to remember or relate of families all over the USA who appeal for financial assistance; all of whom ran into bankruptcy and lost their homes because of medical bills.

This is not freedom that my ancestors fought and died for

I believe in keeping government as small as possible and putting government in the business of health care for me would be an intrusion. We have the best health care in my opinion.

Your opinion is wrong. Sorry to say you are sorely misled. The US healthcare system is among the worst of industrialized nations according to WHO's 2000 study: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

New York times also will show how misplaced your faith in the current US healthcare system is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

In a perfect world every human being would get health care.

Then let's build a perfect world.

Specializes in NICU Transport/NICU.
The problem with this thinking:

The economic structure dictates that there will ALWAYS be a segment of ther workforce that makes LESS than what is necessary for premiums and out of pocket costs. For every worker who "finds better work", another will replace them. We never lose that steady supply of low income workers who cannot afford premiums or are underinsured. These folks who can barely afford the premiums, by definition, will hardly afford the deductible.

To paint them all as lazy and unmotivated is a judgment call on your part, and a terribly uneducated one at that.

Second, "rationing" occurs now on the basis of who can pay and who can't. So swaths of americans go without basic preventive care, immunizations, meds etc b/c they can't afford it. And news flash- it's not becuase they're all buying iphones instead.

I am required to buy auto insurance to drive; going without health insurance places a burden on fellow americans by way of increased taxes and premiums. There is direct and indirect harm in both cases.

Have you seen this first hand? Because I have been privy to it for the last 3 months. I have been doing work for a very large city building department that is using government money to rehab peoples houses. I have a contract with the city to perform the work, the city pays me, and the people get it done for free. The entire street (roughly 50 houses) has at least two cars in every driveway. (cadillacs and some other very nice cars. My truck is a piece of crap by the way). People are home all day long. They all are out front at some point on cell phones. Everyone has tv's that you can hear through their doors. The son of the elderly lady we are doing work for moved ALL of the furniture out of her house and into the storage POD. He has been there everyday through the process. I finally asked him the other day what he does. He tells me he's on disability and used to work at a bread company. I then hear him on the phone talking about his medicaid. There is nothing phisically wrong with him. (Remember all of the stuff he moved) He can drive. (I have seen it myself) He does nothing but sit on his butt all day long and live off of the government. Don't tell me I have made a terribly uneducated judgement call. I have seen it first hand. And he is only one example of many that I can tell you about just from this three month long job. By the way, he does have an Iphone, which is WAY nicer than my phone. But guess what, while he has all of this nice stuff; my wife, my son, and I all have health insurance because I have made that a priority.

Your opinion is wrong. Sorry to say you are sorely misled. The US healthcare system is among the worst of industrialized nations according to WHO's 2000 study: http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

New York times also will show how misplaced your faith in the current US healthcare system is: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/opinion/12sun1.html

Then let's build a perfect world.

I personally do not put too much stock in WHO data or the NY Times. Why don't you start building a perfect world where you live now and the US can copy it!

That's pretty damn condescending. Especially considering that all the foreign voices I've seen here are from those correcting misconceptions and erroneous statements about how their healthcare system works.

They may not have a "dog in the fight" but they do have the right to correct misinformation.

Interesting, you do not live in the USA, but what to tell me how much I need to pay in taxes. I have had a personal incident with a socialize healthcare, so I know how bad and how long the consequences of bad care can be. I rather face bankruptcy and live then die.

Many people who have filed for bankruptcy lived why beyond their means. Now you want me to pay for their irresponsible behavior.

Specializes in cardiac, trauma surg. ,Occ health x 13 y.

I must tell you that responses to my argument have 1. made me laugh - and laughter is great medicine. AND 2. If you haven't lived in a society where you have the type of freedom to succeed or fail like the U.S = I knew you just wouldn't get it. AND 3. You may think me condescending, but I treasure what my forefathers did for me - the Constitution is NOT a malleable document. It is the core of Americans beliefs in this country. We do frown on those who want to do things that are unconstitutional.

I fail to see why a well-staffed healthcare network is a bad thing.

When the UK papers are filled with horror stories and that their cancer survival rate is decreasing and below the US I think it is a fair statement.

You presently live in a country where the government runs things and nurses are unemployed and the health care is third world. So I do think if we are going to compare we need to look at all aspects.

"the government will end up pushing private insurance coverage out by making private insurance coverage so expensive that the average person can't afford it.the insurance companies have already accomplished that without the help of the government and as the system is over loaded, decisions will have to be made regarding allocations of services. i'd rather fight with my insurance company. have you ever actually had to do that?... cuz they will drag it out until you no longer have the finances to pay for the fight and they will still not pay.if they **** me off, i still have the freedom to get a different carrier." you will find then that you have a pre-existing condition and it is not easy and not cheap to find an insurance company that will take your money every month so that they can limit your access to healthcare. or perhaps you think they don't limit your access? you must not have a formulary for your prescriptions, or perhaps you have never had a test ordered that the insurance company does not agree is the appropriate test to follow up your cancer treatment. maybe your insurance company doesn't care which md you see or which hospital or lab you use.

the bottom line is this...our present process for accessing and paying for healthcare in this country is in trouble. it costs too much money, is too restrictive, and does not cover enough of the people. in spite of the state of the art technology, training, and facilities we have an unhealthy population with health outcomes that are embarrassing. capitalism is a good thing, it is just not the answer for everything and this is simply one of those things that capitalism cannot improve. the delivery of healthcare for profit is not going to solve any problems with access, availability, and cost. if we want to preserve the small business in america, give them a public insurance option for their employees. if we want to impact the cost of manufacturing in america, reduce the cost of health insurance for those companies.

i have a friend whose 26yr old son, who had no insurance through his work, suffered a case of appendicitis and ruptured his appendix. after an ambulance ride, surgery, icu stay, etc he did the best he could to stay on top of the huge bills with monthly payments, until he got ill with some common thing about a year later (don't remember if it was flu) that kept him out of work for about a week. he ended up filing bankrupcy. thank goodness he did not have a wife or children at the time. i ask myself, what choices did this young man have? how did our current system of healthcare delivery benefit him? it certainly preserved his life at the same time that it devastated him financially. my question is....don't you agree that we can do better?

he had the choice to buy insurance or apply for medicaid he did neither and now in a mess.

Specializes in PICU, NICU, L&D, Public Health, Hospice.

you are right...he did have the option to purchase health insurance. He decided that he could not afford those premiums, his options represented too much of his montly income for coverage that he decided was too sporifice and so he opted to gamble. He was not eligible for medicaid. There are too many people in that very situation. The point is this....the fact that this type of scenario happens ROUTINELY causes a huge financial burden for ALL of us when it comes to healthcare. Healthcare costs us 16% of our GDP now and will continue to grow unless we do something to help people like this young man. We need to have a system that provides AFFORDABLE health insurance options for everyone. With our current system the choices are not good for people who need to have insurance outside of a large employer. I believe that too many people may be under the impression that insurance is sort of standard...one as good as another. That would explain why they think that you are sort of "all set" if you have bought insurance. Of course, we know that the plight of the under-insured is just a significant as that of the uninsured. The under-insured have huge financial burdens from medical cause, just like the uninsured. The bankrupcy rate for medical cause is far from being limited to the uninsured. The primary cause is not that people dont want insurance, the primary cause is that people do not believe that they have a good affordable option. I ask again...don't you agree that we can do better?

I agree in my state affordable options are available, but the state is going bankrupt!

I will be traveling and will have limited internet access. I personally believe this is a great subject to debate. I respect everyone's viewpoint. I don't think I have used the words " you are wrong, or you are unethical and other hostile words". I would ask that others extend the same right to opposing views and keep the talk about the issues and not make judgments.

People who have legally immigrated here do have a "dog in the fight" and have a view point which is very needed. What I am trying to understand, it is my impression many nurses came to the USA for a better way of life which they felt they could achieve in the USA. I have been to the UK three times, and the population seems to have a great quality of life. The country is beautiful and the people have a warm heart. My impression the reason the nurses came from the UK to the USA multi variant, but working condition for nurses in the UK seem to have some issues and working conditions in their native country was one. Now I have to wonder why these nurses want create a system similar in the USA, it confuses me. If these nurses came for non nursing issues with a radical change in health care it will effect the American way of life.

I am all for democracy, it is the system.Many posters have told me Health Care is a right. That maybe your personal belief and you have a 100% right to believe it should be. Our congressional leaders have bills presently to make this an amendment,my understand of the law is limited, but common sense tells me that it is not a right or why would congress be trying to make this amendment.

I live in a state where there are laws protecting consumers that are enforced. Everyone has to be offered healthcare at work at a reasonable price. There are no pre existing clauses, the insurance can't be canceled due to previous illness. The state make affordable plans for people who don't have access at work. I feel no need for an overall to my healthcare. Insurance companies have to be paid and pay out their claims within 90 days. If a clinical issue is denied there is a process that has less then a 24 hour appeal process. Most citizens have insurance either private or through the state - high 90 %. I would have no issue with this being a national model.

Unlike other countries where the cost of education is affordable doctors and nurses have huge loans to pay off. If the country changes to a socialized system it is going to cripple these providers and very quickly we will have to change the educational system to meet a socialize process. I don't think this has been addressed in anything I have read.

Howard Dean said yesterday, that taking on the lawyers with this issue would be too much, yet that is a force that drives up health care. My opinion this needs to be addressed since my understanding in a socialized system you are limited to who you can sue.

I have also read that Canadian Doctors are stating the system is imploding. There are horror stories being written about the UK and France. Due to the economic situation these systems are being stress and do not reflect true systems which usually function well. I bring this point up since I don't think this is the time to make radical change without think through all the issues.

Sorry to ramble on, I have learned from this discussion, as nurses we all bring unique life experiences to this board. If you disagree with a poster, remember that is their experience and opinion and have the right to discuss it. Thank you all for sharing your beliefs.