Socialized Medicine: The Argument to Support moving forward - page 6

Many people have a misunderstanding that if the government funds health care then THEY control our health care - a concept which in all reality is impossible. What they do provide is funding for... Read More

  1. Visit  TakeBack profile page
    0
    Quote from nurse2009
    I believe I can speak with experience that this will not work!!!!! My husband is active duty military and our health care comes from the government (Tricare). You do not get seen when you need to be seen: For example yesterday I called to have my daughter be seen for an ear infection it was 8/26, They can not see her for a simple ear infection till 9/1. Im sorry that is not good health care system. If socialized health care comes to the US there will be waiting lists for simple care and the ones who need something like hip, knee or joint replacements will be waiting for years.
    Socialized medicine does not work!!!!!!
    :heartbeatTricia:heartbeat
    In Canada:

    Arthroplasty wait times
    Table 5-2, p 20
    http://secure.cihi.ca/cihiweb/produc..._EN_080229.pdf

    Additionally your daughter can go into any ED for her otitis there. Wait times are 40 min to a few hrs on average last I read (higher in big metro areas, negligible in smaller markets).
  2. Visit  TakeBack profile page
    0
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    My point is that the government controls the money, the workforce and the policies. Personally I feel less government is better, yes we need government to build roads and maintain an army. Having government manage health care is not the intrusion I personally want.


    But the NHS is Europe's largest employer, I personally don't want to give the US Government control of my healthcare. But that is a personal choice, and the democratic process will decide which is the route America should choose.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...s-exposed.html

    One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
    NHS is a gov't financed, gov't administered system.

    US, if it adopted a SP system, would retain private providers. They would be limited no differently than they are by private insurance regulation now. Only with cheaper admin costs and less waste on pharma gaming, advertising.....
  3. Visit  NMiller1 profile page
    3
    I cannot understand how some of you think that health care is 'free'. Can you take your car to the mechanic for free? Don't they operate to make money? Are your groceries free? I guess they don't stay in business to make money either. How about the department store? DO YOU WORK FOR FREE? Don't you like to have a little profit if you have a sale of some sort? One of the main reasons that the cost of health care has gone up by leaps and bounds are the frivolous medical malpractice lawsuits that have been filed and the outrageous awards that have been given out - to some - NOT all.
    So if you want to start ragging on a group of people who are pulling money out of your pocket - go after the attorneys - the ambulance chasers. But that isn't even being addressed.
    I don't have the best insurance right now. I work for a small company. I have purchased insurance on my own in the past and have had some exclusions for pre-existing conditions. You know what though - it was MY choice. I purchased what I thought would best work for me and then I made sure that I took care of myself to limit expenses for the areas not covered. We all make choices - where we live, what we wear, what kind of car we buy - heck, even how much car insurance we carry! The small group of the population that may be uninsured can be taken care of.. I do think that some reforms are needed (start with tort reform), but you don't go to the extremes that this administration is wanting. Their motives are not in any of our best interest. They are power hungry. I don't have much trust in an administration that admires Hugo Chavez.
  4. Visit  elkpark profile page
    2
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...s-exposed.html

    One million NHS patients have been the victims of appalling care in hospitals across Britain, according to a major report released today.
    "... The charity has published a selection of personal accounts from hundreds of relatives of patients, most of whom died, following their care in NHS hospitals. They cite patient surveys which show the vast majority of patients highly rate their NHS care - but, with some ten million treated a year, even a small percentage means hundreds of thousands have suffered. ...

    ... This report is based on the two per cent of patients who feel that their care was unacceptable. Two per cent is too many but we are concerned that this might undermine the public's confidence in the world-class care they can expect to receive from the NHS. ...

    ... These accounts tell the story of the two percent of patients that consistently rate their care as poor (in NHS patient surveys). She added: "It is important to note this is not representative of the picture across the NHS. 'The NHS treats millions of people every day and the vast majority of patients experience good quality, safe and effective care - the Care Quality Commission's recent patient experience survey shows that 93 percent of patients rate their overall care as good or excellent.' ..." (from the article linked above, emphases mine)


    You don't think that 2% of US hospital patients have bad experiences and outcomes? Have you seen the figures about how many people die in US hospitals each year because of medical errors and poor care? The reports and figures quoted in the article are over a six-year period (2002-2008). I don't know, but I'm guessing that the US outcome figures would be at least as bad, probably significantly worse (adjusted for overall number of patients).
    Hushdawg and BBFRN like this.
  5. Visit  madwife2002 profile page
    5
    Quote from NMiller1
    I suppose that some of those promoting a Nationalized style of health care are from countries that are already on that system. It is unfortunate if you have not experienced the personal freedom of CHOICE. The US was founded on principles that embraced personal liberties which we have over the years.... slowly... been losing one by one for "the greater good". There is NO free health care. Period.
    Ten years ago, while visiting New Zealand, I read an article in the paper that a certain county / region will not be authorizing any more tonsillectomies for the rest of the year as they had all been allocated. (this was March). I just could not believe it.
    Oh - and I do not want to pay 80% of my pay in taxes - thank you very much. I prefer as little "state run" intrusion in my life as possible.
    The problem with the government is that they do not know how to run any industry. Outside of our military, they have a poor record. Standard VA care is a nightmare, medicaid, and medicare is going bankrupt - even the post office. The government WILL end up pushing private insurance coverage out by making private insurance coverage so expensive that the average person can't afford it. And as the system is over loaded, decisions will have to be made regarding allocations of services. I'd rather fight with my insurance company. If they **** me off, I still have the freedom to get a different carrier.
    For anyone who is not a US citizen. Please (respectfully) - mind your own business as you don't have a dog in this fight. Our forefathers left tyrannical rule many years ago so that their descendants could live FREE. You may not be able to understand how much we cherish that freedom.

    Believe it or not there are a lot of countries who have 'freedom' but I understand that you do not want discussion from Nurses from other countries about your healthcare, but honestly i feel that is how we learn by being educated by what is happenening in other countries good and bad. We are a nursing website and we should welcome input from peoples experiences. NObody is going to tell America what to do, It will do it's own thing-rightly or wrongly, but this is a discussion forum and providing we are not being rude or personnal I do not see harm in allowing nurses from any country or any walk of life contributing to this discussion.
    Mollypita, PediMommy, Hushdawg, and 2 others like this.
  6. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    0
    Quote from hypocaffeinemia
    Why do you favor socialized roads and military? Wouldn't less government intervention lead to better roads and militaries as companies could compete in the free market?

    Isn't your support of socialism for roads and militaries but not healthcare a bit of a double standard?
    No my personal belief less government is better, military and an infastructure is a necessary evil. And yes many communities do outsource road building which is good since private industry usually does it better and less expensive.
  7. Visit  Mijourney profile page
    0
    I don't see supporting a little government intervention and supporting a little private industry intervention at the same time is problematic. After all, many of us, usually eat more than a one course meal when we do eat. In fact, I'm willing to bet that most of us in the U.S. eat our food on the same plate for our meals. The question for me comes down to this: can we take the best of both worlds and combine them? People on one side say government is the best for us. The other side says private industry is best. As indicated in an earlier posting, I feel that a hybrid system may be a workable solution as long as it puts emphasis on the young and on quality of life. With that said, I feel that because the U.S. is a capitalistic society (not bad depending on where it's taking us), that too much talk is spent on the economics of health care instead of how focusing on reducing acute and chronic disease, encouraging better food choices and exercise, and increasing quality of life will reduce expenditures in this country. We've got to start now getting our young people straight with their body, mind, and spirit by changing our walk and talk in life; we adults set the example. Otherwise, we will lose another one or two generations and we will be right back where we are today: discussing how to get outrageous health and medical costs under control.
  8. Visit  hypocaffeinemia profile page
    0
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    No my personal belief less government is better, military and an infastructure is a necessary evil. And yes many communities do outsource road building which is good since private industry usually does it better and less expensive.
    A ha!

    "Necessary evil".

    You what that is, right? That's a logical fallacy called special pleading. In my opinion, providing adequate (and not just emergent) healthcare to the everyone is a necessary evil-- that and it's cheaper, too. Outpatient drug and diet management for diabetes is cheaper than the cost of an ER->ICU stay for DKA, for instance.

    As for roads-- all government outsources to private industry. Healthcare in many "socialized" countries is no different. You realize in many (most?) of the first-world countries that healthcare providers and hospitals aren't government employees but instead are private industry, right?

    However, in your roads example: while governments seek out bids for road improvements and maintenance, they still manage it all. Roads aren't wholly owned by private companies. You say it's a necessary evil. I will specially plead my own necessary evils.
  9. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    0
    Quote from hypocaffeinemia
    A ha!

    "Necessary evil".

    You what that is, right? That's a logical fallacy called special pleading. In my opinion, providing adequate (and not just emergent) healthcare to the everyone is a necessary evil-- that and it's cheaper, too. Outpatient drug and diet management for diabetes is cheaper than the cost of an ER->ICU stay for DKA, for instance.

    As for roads-- all government outsources to private industry. Healthcare in many "socialized" countries is no different. You realize in many (most?) of the first-world countries that healthcare providers and hospitals aren't government employees but instead are private industry, right?

    However, in your roads example: while governments seek out bids for road improvements and maintenance, they still manage it all. Roads aren't wholly owned by private companies. You say it's a necessary evil. I will specially plead my own necessary evils.
    And I agree to respectfully disagree, today I spent most of the day preparing records for a Medicaid Audit, the charts have already been reviewed and validated through CMS. Now the hospital has to send the records to be re reviewd by the state for quality. We have to hire a programmer to send the information electronically to the state and pay a vendor to submit the data. It is really really sad when the paper work reviewing a case is much longer then the operation. We had to reprogram so we could collect information, to identify patients not only by color of their skin, but nation, so we now can capture not only is someone black, but their ancestors came from Kenya. I don't know how this makes good quality care or efficient. I know if socialized medicine becomes law I have job security, but I don't know if I can say this true for my bedside colleagues.
  10. Visit  elkpark profile page
    0
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    No my personal belief less government is better, military and an infastructure is a necessary evil. And yes many communities do outsource road building which is good since private industry usually does it better and less expensive.
    Yes, the government hires a private company to do the actual construction of the road. If "private industry" and the free market actually built roads on their own, private companies would each decide individually where they felt like putting roads and all roads would be toll roads (and rural communities like mine, with smaller populations, would still have dirt roads because it wouldn't be profitable for private companies to build there).

    However, I question your "better and less expensive" statement, unless you have a source to back it up beyond your personal opinion.
  11. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    0
    We had to pay for water connection, the town initially would not give us a price, it would be one price $18K for the town to make the connection.....or $10K if they had to bid it out, since the town could not do the work, we saved $8K. The town had total control over the project.

    I know from local politics my health plan is double the price for town employees, the reason is the union won't allow the town to buy a county health plan (which is cheaper).

    They say all politics is local.
  12. Visit  hypocaffeinemia profile page
    0
    Quote from MedSurg32RN
    And I agree to respectfully disagree, today I spent most of the day preparing records for a Medicaid Audit, the charts have already been reviewed and validated through CMS. Now the hospital has to send the records to be re reviewd by the state for quality. We have to hire a programmer to send the information electronically to the state and pay a vendor to submit the data. It is really really sad when the paper work reviewing a case is much longer then the operation. We had to reprogram so we could collect information, to identify patients not only by color of their skin, but nation, so we now can capture not only is someone black, but their ancestors came from Kenya. I don't know how this makes good quality care or efficient. I know if socialized medicine becomes law I have job security, but I don't know if I can say this true for my bedside colleagues.
    Let me get your argument straight:

    The current government system is paperwork-laden and cumbersome...

    ...therefore there should be no obligation to provide adequate healthcare to all people?

    That's essentially the argument you just made.
  13. Visit  Ginger's Mom profile page
    0
    Quote from hypocaffeinemia
    Let me get your argument straight:

    The current government system is paperwork-laden and cumbersome...

    ...therefore there should be no obligation to provide adequate healthcare to all people?

    That's essentially the argument you just made.
    No, I don't think it is government's job to provide healthcare. I don't think it is government's job to provide food, I don't think it is government's job to provide housing.

    There is nothing in the Constitution to provide healthcare. I don't want to pay taxes to support other people health care and I don't want other people making decisions for me.

    The government in my opinion does a lousy job adminstrating any program.

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