Shooting at nurse's college in Tuscon, AZ?? - page 15

I am watching FOXNews and they just reported they have received a "bulletin" about a shooting at a nursing college in Tuscon. They will break in more more news as they get it. Two women have been... Read More

  1. by   lisainaz
    Arizona Daily Star

    Students recall Flores as loud, intimidating-person shown in letter wasn't man they knew

    http://www.azstarnet.com/specialrepo...MOREFEARS.html
  2. by   Q.
    Lisa,

    Thank you, thank you, thank you so very much for posting THIS link. I read the letter from Melissa Goldsmith, MSN, RNC and I could not hold back the tears.

    Melissa's sentiment is exactly what I was trying to convey, and the fact that the entire college community felt that Flores was ultimately responsible for everything leading up to this tragedy, makes me feel at ease. At ease knowing that hopefully, with Melissa's strong and brave letter, others will not continue to turn a cold-blooded killer into a martyr.

    Thank you.
  3. by   abrenrn
    Lisa,

    I have read these statements made by students and faculty. They do, indeed, paint a picture of a maniac, someone who should not have been allowed to continue to endanger students and staff for so long.

    I read the portion of the killers letter where he said (I parpaphrase): the school will paint me out to be [exactly what the school is painting him out to be] and, so, provide a roadmap to future litigants who will not understand why the school did not do something ealier to prevent this.

    He pointed out changes in the educational system after Columbine because litigants went to court to "fix the blame" on the school system itself.

    Violence is a terrible way to deal with an unjust system; you experienced this violence first hand, that is terribly difficult.

    I do not know if the system at your school was as unjust as the killer made it out to be - so far, nobody has directly refuted his specific allegations. I would like them to do so, so that I can form an opinion based on all the facts.

    In the meantime, members of the school of nursing are behaving exactly as Robert Flores predicted.

    Yes, everyone is angry and hurt. By expressing the full extent of this anger and hurt and blame, they are doing the work of the lawyers who will soon be soliciting litigants. The more the school presents him as a madman, the more people will question why nothing was done sooner.

    Why would the school do this do itself? Why do they behave exactly as the killer seemed to expect them to, seemed to want them to, behave?

    To deny the existence of inappropriate behavior on the school's part, they put themselves in the position of saying they were harboring a madman, someone they knew was dangerous.
    Last edit by abrenrn on Nov 1, '02
  4. by   LasVegasRN
    Originally posted by abrenrn
    ..In the meantime, members of the school of nursing are behaving exactly as Robert Flores predicted...
    I'm sorry, but that's not fair. Maybe the killer said that because he knew exactly what he was to begin with.
  5. by   Q.
    Originally posted by LasVegasRN
    I'm sorry, but that's not fair. Maybe the killer said that because he knew exactly what he was to begin with.

    And perhaps because reactions to murder, like this one, are fairly predictable. Why wouldn't the college community have an outpouring of grief and anger?

    The liklihood that an entire college community was "out to get him" sounds more along the lines of paranoid schizophrenic, and I'm not saying that lightly or facetiously. To me, the former is less likely.
  6. by   abrenrn
    Vegas -

    What you say is true. He may have known exactly what he was. The point is, if the school also knew this, why did they not do something sooner?

    This is not so much a question of mine, just a question lawyers may soon be asking, if what was seen in the aftermath of Columbine does happen here - lawsuits. Given the "sue me, sue you" nature of this society, I think this is a potential problem.

    I should have stated that he predicted the aftermath accurately, whether it was because he knew himself or the instructors. That information I do not know.
  7. by   abrenrn
    Suzy,

    What you say is quite true as well - you posted while I was posting.

    I merely point out the legal implications of the statements being made by members of the college community. These are fairly predictable as well.
  8. by   lisainaz
    Originally posted by abrenrn
    Lisa,


    I do not know if the system at your school was as unjust as the killer made it out to be - so far, nobody has directly refuted his specific allegations. I would like them to do so, so that I can form an opinion based on all the facts.

    In the meantime, members of the school of nursing are behaving exactly as Robert Flores predicted.

    .
    Many of his allegations cannot be refuted because the people involved are dead. Also, when one makes an allegation the burdon of proof is on them. Flores cannot prove his case because he is dead. The remaining witnesses paint a pretty clear picture of what Flores was like.

    As far as "members of the school of nursing are behaving exactly as Robert Flores predicted" ...my response is so what? He had the intelligence to see how this would play out after his death. Also, as Vegasrn said, maybe he knew what he was.
  9. by   LasVegasRN
    Originally posted by abrenrn
    ...I should have stated that he predicted the aftermath accurately, whether it was because he knew himself or the instructors. That information I do not know.
    If I went out and shot a member of this board who I have disagreed with publically in the past, and wrote a letter saying, "I know the posters of that board will not understand why I did it, and they will say I gave no indication of my extremely violent behavior at all", that would be predicting the aftermath accurately, wouldn't it? I hate to say it this way, but DUH he predicted the aftermath correctly. Doesn't take a whole lot.
  10. by   abrenrn
    I should step away, but I will respond. I'm sorry if my responses offend others. Please continue to point out information I did not include.

    I believe certain allegations can be explored through records, interviews with others present and so forth. This is not a pleasant process but without it, there is simply a "he said, she said" point of view.

    Given the tragic nature of this event, is it better to simply put it behind us and move on, or try to explore every aspect of the tragedy?

    There are certainly valid viewpoints behind each position. I ask only to hear them and have the opportunity to voice my own.

    Please continue to point out instances where I overreact or do not consider all alternatives. That is how I learn. I appreciate those who have done this so far.
  11. by   Q.
    I'm not sure if anything can be done to prevent it. The police were notified; if anything, the school probably kept him in the program out of fear. I would definitely be sympathetic to that argument.


    I think with someone as unstable as Flores, there is nothing that is predictable, nothing that can be stopped, nothing that can be averted.
  12. by   Q.
    Originally posted by abrenrn
    I should step away, but I will respond. I'm sorry if my responses offend others. Please continue to point out information I did not include.

    I believe certain allegations can be explored through records, interviews with others present and so forth. This is not a pleasant process but without it, there is simply a "he said, she said" point of view.

    Given the tragic nature of this event, is it better to simply put it behind us and move on, or try to explore every aspect of the tragedy?

    There are certainly valid viewpoints behind each position. I ask only to hear them and have the opportunity to voice my own.

    Please continue to point out instances where I overreact or do not consider all alternatives. That is how I learn. I appreciate those who have done this so far.
    Anne, you are doing just fine. Just remember that me, Vegas, and anyone else who has a disagreement are doing so because we just disagree with your ideas, not YOU. This debate hasn't turned ugly and there has been no name callings or insults.

    Your posts, while I disagree with them, are benign in nature in that they are not inflammatory or rude. Please continue to post your thoughts.
  13. by   abrenrn
    Exactly, Vegas -

    I would be shocked if I found out you went out and killed someone because you disagreed with them. You have never indicated in anyway you would. Had you done so, I believe someone would have recommended help, perhaps tried to notify the board, anything to protect fellow posters, and yourself, from such a tragic outcome.

    The fact that members of the school are saying they knew he was violent for a long time, suspected he was violent is a bit different, I think. Given the degree of suspicion of violence being reported, one wonders why something wasn't done to prevent it.

    If I were a lawyer, I would have no ammunition to use against members of this board. I would have a whole lot of ammunition to use against the College of Nursing, I think.

    I'm glad you seem to agree with this.

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