Shocked At Nurses Actions Tonight - page 3
I work part time at a local SNF / rehab faciliety. On PM and NOC shift it is staffed with 3 or 4 LPNs and one RN charge nurse (tonight it was me). One of our LPNs is a sweet young girl from a very... Read More
Nov 23, '06Quote from Baptized_By_FireWhy wasn't she able to tell that this pt was muslim during report? Didn't she notice the name?
Is every Hartheim a Jew? Is every Kim or Chung or Yamamoto a Buddhist? Is every Smith a Christian?
Every Muslim is certainly not a terrorist.The terrorists are the extreme faction, much like KKK or NeoNazis. They do not represent the majority in this country, and terrorists do not represent the majority of Muslims.
OP, I agree with your actions, including reporting her to the BON. Refusing a pt under certain few circumstances is acceptable, but not in the manner in which she did it, and certainly religious intolerance is not on that list. It's the same as caring for HIV/AIDS pts........25 years ago nurses were allowed to do that, but not anymore. The "sweet young thing" is entitled to her opinions about people but she is not entitled to refuse care like that.
As for caring for the enemy in war, Americans have always, in this century, cared for the injured regardless of the uniform they wear. Maybe that should be pointed out to Young Thing.
Nov 23, '06wow! i've never had that situation happen. i think i would have handled it differently though depending on how badly i needed her body to do work. i would have re-organized the assignments and given someone else that patient. i probably would have made sure she got some really scut work to do as well just to be a bit nasty and put pressure on her. i would have written her up, as well as discussed with her that her refusal was inappropriate and told her she was being written up. the truth is that you can't make someone do something they are absolutely refusing to do. as a supervisor i always tried to get the person to walk off the job by their own choice rather then send them home as my choice since it makes a better case for them getting fired later. walking off the job is abandonment and is reportable to the state board. in any case, i'm hanging on to my subscription to this thread because i'm interested to see how this all turns out. please keep us informed on the outcome of this, won't you?
Nov 23, '06Quote from Baptized_By_FireUm... how can you tell a patient is Muslim by his or her name?Why wasn't she able to tell that this pt was muslim during report? Didn't she notice the name?
Nov 23, '06This is not simply an employment issue; it's a board issue.
Patient Abandonment should also be reported to the board. I would point out to your employer that you have a legal obligation to report this to the board so that they can do so as well so as not to look bad by getting YOUR report and not a similar one from them.
And then, report it to the board.
You did the right thing, but you haven't gone far enough yet. The NPA in most states require you, as a co-professional and protector of our license, to report serious issues with the board.
THIS is a serious issue. Don't frame it in terms of religious bias, which is bad enough. Frame it in terms of the actual board reportable offense: pt abandonment.
Many posters are correct: if the action here is limited to employment decisions, then this person is free to take her biases elsewhere. However, the scope and impact of this imprudent nurse's actions are board reportable and her accountability for this action extends far past one employer.
You sent her home for her refusal to care for the patient. The refusal itself is patient abandonment, being sent home: disciplinary action for an abandonment that already occurred.
Timothy.Last edit by ZASHAGALKA on Nov 23, '06
Nov 23, '06Quote from TweetyYou're exactly right Tweety. For all we know he's a third generation American who just happens to be Muslim.Really, this nurse is off the chain assuming so much based on a person's religion. He probably is a hardworking, tax paying, terrorist hating American like the rest of us.
He just happens to be Muslim. Now if this nurse was over in Iraq and picked this guy up from a terrorist group maybe I'd give her some cred.
There are other terrorists besides Muslims. Anyone can be a terrorist. Think about white supremecy groups and KKK. IMO, I consider them terrorists.
Nov 23, '06Wow.... I haven't even been able to respond because this just made me sick. I can't blieve that any nurse would choose to classify a human being becuase of race, regigion, sex, etc. I don't think I even know how to put into words the disgust that I'm feeling about what this nurse did.
I'm also a bit confused about "patient swapping". Is this something that is "normal" to go on in a facility? I even have concerns about Witness nurses not hanging blood products. I know that they can refuse to accept blood products for themselves, but to not do part of their job and hand products on another person? I know the issues with blood after it's left the body and such, but I'm not sure why they would refuse to hang it on someone else? If it's fear of coming in contact with the products wouldn't the same go for IV starts or blood draws?
Okay... I'm thoroughly confused about all of it now.
Thanks for any info.
Nov 23, '06Quote from Hellllllo NurseI do not think she should be fired for her opinions. I think she should be fired for abandoning her pt.
She took report on the pt then refused to care for him.
Agreed. I'd go farther than just firing her, I think she should lose her license. I don't care if she grew up under a rock, there is no way she got her license without understanding her legal obligations.
Nov 23, '06Quote from mom23RNI don't know about others, but where I work patient swapping only occurs if it's a family member, an ex, etc. Once a pt was swapped because he only spoke Spanish and the nurse spoke fluent Spanish.I'm also a bit confused about "patient swapping". Is this something that is "normal" to go on in a facility? I even have concerns about Witness nurses not hanging blood products. I know that they can refuse to accept blood products for themselves, but to not do part of their job and hand products on another person? I know the issues with blood after it's left the body and such, but I'm not sure why they would refuse to hang it on someone else? If it's fear of coming in contact with the products wouldn't the same go for IV starts or blood draws?
Okay... I'm thoroughly confused about all of it now.
Thanks for any info.
With Jehovah's Witnesses (to my knowledge)it's not the fear of coming in contact with blood products. This is a quote taken from the Jehovah's witnesses website:
Those who respect life as a gift from the Creator do not try to sustain life by taking in blood.
I don't know the legalities of a Jehovah's Witness nurse giving blood. I'm not a nurse, so am not aware of the legal aspects of that.
Nov 23, '06Quote from mercyteapotAgreed. I'd go farther than just firing her, I think she should lose her license. I don't care if she grew up under a rock, there is no way she got her license without understanding her legal obligations.
Agreed. The OP stated that this nurse grew up in a small, white town. I grew up (and still live in) a small, 99% white town. I was raised that you treat everyone the same and that racism is not an option.
I will tell someone off if they say the "n" word or say the "f" word. I do not associate with racists or bigots. I don't hate them, just pity them.
I'm grateful to my parents for instilling those beliefs in me.
Nov 23, '06Some JW's nurses hang blood others do not. It's a personal decision, not one ditacted by their religion, but I'm not an authority. I work with a JW nurse who doesn't hang blood and we just hang the blood for her, or swap patients. It's just the right thing to do.
This is entirely different than swapping because a nurse is prejudiced. Most organizations worth a flip have a zero tolerance for prejudices and it's a fireable offense to be make prejudice statements against coworkers and patients, never mind refuse to care for them based on prejudices.
Nov 23, '06You did the right thing. A professional nurse should not refuse to care for a patient based on (the patient's) religion or ethnicity. We have a duty to give care once we get report. I actually think it's shakey to refuse report on a patient based on these factors. Years ago I was a medic and OR tech in the army. In my medic role, I knew that during time of war I might be called on to treat enemy wounded. I was prepared to do that to the best of my ability because that's my job.Last edit by azhiker96 on Nov 23, '06
Nov 23, '06While I don't refuse patients for any reason, I have worked w/nurses who refused to assist in certain procedures due to their religious beliefs- this was not a problem. My memory may not be 100% accurate re: this, but a friend of mine said there was a news program on TV several months ago about a muslim who did not like the treatment he rec'd in the ER from 2 nurses. He waited until both of the nurses were getting off duty one night and shot them both in the parking lot- one died, one lived but is disabled- paralyzed I think- this is enough to scare anyone. Furthermore, I have seen other RNs treated poorly & in a verbally abusive way- yelling, threatening- by male family members of muslims. Still, I would not REFUSE to take care of any patient- regardless of race or religion-- UNLESS I was threatened or treated in an abusive manner. I have taken care of criminals, child abusers, wife beaters, hostile patients, drunks, druggies, HIV/AIDs patients--- I don't LIKE to, but it is our job to remain non-judgemental of each other. Fortunately these types of patients are not in the majority- in my experience.
Nov 23, '06There is no relationship between refusing to do certain nursing procedures due to religious objections and refusing to take care of someone due to prejudice.
I much dislike even the casual connection between the two concepts.
For starters, most facility policies require that you notify administration IN ADVANCE of being put in that situation. Then, it becomes management's duty to ensure that you avoid being put in those situations.
If, for example, it had been an issue of hanging blood, her supervisor, the OP, would have known that and could have made staffing decisions in advance.
But, cultural diversity is an intergral part of nursing. THAT is not something you can refuse. It's akin to volunteering for active duty infantry and THEN, claiming conscientious objector status. Nope, doesn't work that way.
Or, it's kind of like ME saying that I will no longer take care of patients that have diarrhea because I don't like cleaning poop.
I'm sorry, that's in the job description. It's non-negotiable.
Now, you DON'T HAVE TO TAKE CARE OF MUSLIM PATIENTS, if it's that much an issue for you. But, that only way achieve this goal is to not be a nurse. Period.
Please, let's stop equating bigotry to valid religious beliefs. They aren't the same. They aren't nearly the same.