Sending nurses over from India???

Sheri257 · Apr 24, 2004

I don't view foreign nurses as a threat. Here's why:

You can't outsource a nursing job to India. You have to bring the foreign nurse here. Therefore, they have to live here, and they have the same cost of living as we do. It's not quite the same thing as those IT jobs moving to India. Even if they're not paid well initially, foreign nurses do eventually demand the same wages, benefits, etc. There have been EEOC cases where foreign nurses have sued and successfully fought for better wages and benefits.

There have been posts on this board where administrators have complained about training foreign nurses who eventually left for better paying jobs elsewhere. The reason is that demand for nurses is high and should continue to grow with the aging baby boom generation. So, hopefully, there should be room for everybody.

Also, there are new English proficiency requirements will hopefully eliminate the problem of foreign nurses who don't speak the language well. This might also reduce any potential flood of foreign nurses coming into the marketplace.

angel337, MSN, RN · Apr 24, 2004

i have read several articles over the years about plans the U.S. are taking to relieve the nursing "shortage". statistically according to most U.S. nurses, nursing is the worst career you could have so why all the fuss when there is talk about replacing us with foreign nurses? i don't think that india nurses will be replacing us any time soon, but is is something to think about. i love nursing, i have had other careers and so far nursing has provided the best pay and the most security. is the job crappy at times? of course. but in order for us to keep that security, nurses have to be advocates for their profession instead of bashing it. i think you should pursue your nursing career. the more people that go into nursing the better it will be for this country.

angel337, MSN, RN · Apr 24, 2004

i have read several articles over the years about plans the U.S. are taking to relieve the nursing "shortage". statistically according to most U.S. nurses, nursing is the worst career you could have so why all the fuss when there is talk about replacing us with foreign nurses? i don't think that india nurses will be replacing us any time soon, but is is something to think about. i love nursing, i have had other careers and so far nursing has provided the best pay and the most security. is the job crappy at times? of course. but in order for us to keep that security, nurses have to be advocates for their profession instead of bashing it. i think you should pursue your nursing career. the more people that go into nursing the better it will be for this country.

suzanne4, RN · Apr 24, 2004

Depending on which state that the foreign nurse is going to work in, it can take up to 18 months to get everything processed. Right now, about the quickest is 9 months to 1 year for the nurse that properly completes her/his paperwork in the right sequence, etc. Any nurse now coming into the US to work is coming on a green card as a permanent resident so there are no differences in salaries, unless they get the "Royal Screw" by an unscrupulous agency, who pockets most of the money and not the nurse.

You cannot get a green card without having English skills the same as a native speaker so that severly limits the amount of foreign nurses who will be coming over to the US. I wouldn't worry about them taking a job from you.

There are more than enough to go around.....................

There are actually some unscrupulous people over here promising the nurse that they can go to the US with only a CGFNS exam and no English requirements and work as an RN. Pay is about $16 BLENDED rate as they call it for California, meaning that the nurse works 12 hour shifts and essentially gets about $12 per hour. Or I have heard Chicago at $24. But you can't work in the US without a Visa Screen, which requires complete English series.

People that don't know any better will jump at any chance to get to the US and unfortunately they are taken advantage of. But if you are willing to sign a work contract for three years in English, when you don't understand it, you should get what is coming to you. And both of the "unscrupulous' people doing it here are nurses......................just beyond me................but as they say "What goes around, comes around."

suzanne4, RN · Apr 24, 2004

Depending on which state that the foreign nurse is going to work in, it can take up to 18 months to get everything processed. Right now, about the quickest is 9 months to 1 year for the nurse that properly completes her/his paperwork in the right sequence, etc. Any nurse now coming into the US to work is coming on a green card as a permanent resident so there are no differences in salaries, unless they get the "Royal Screw" by an unscrupulous agency, who pockets most of the money and not the nurse.

You cannot get a green card without having English skills the same as a native speaker so that severly limits the amount of foreign nurses who will be coming over to the US. I wouldn't worry about them taking a job from you.

There are more than enough to go around.....................

There are actually some unscrupulous people over here promising the nurse that they can go to the US with only a CGFNS exam and no English requirements and work as an RN. Pay is about $16 BLENDED rate as they call it for California, meaning that the nurse works 12 hour shifts and essentially gets about $12 per hour. Or I have heard Chicago at $24. But you can't work in the US without a Visa Screen, which requires complete English series.

People that don't know any better will jump at any chance to get to the US and unfortunately they are taken advantage of. But if you are willing to sign a work contract for three years in English, when you don't understand it, you should get what is coming to you. And both of the "unscrupulous' people doing it here are nurses......................just beyond me................but as they say "What goes around, comes around."

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 24, 2004

Also note in order to hire a foreign citazen of any sort it must be proven that it is a job no US citazen wants or can fill. (Think migrant worker picking fruit for low wages in the hot sun.) So if US nurses are filling the positions, hospitals are not allowed to bring over foreign workers.

It's a double edged sword. They are BSN prepared and are excellent nurses. It fulfills a dire need. On the other hand it allows the profression and management not to address the issues as to why there is a shortage in the first place.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Apr 24, 2004

Also note in order to hire a foreign citazen of any sort it must be proven that it is a job no US citazen wants or can fill. (Think migrant worker picking fruit for low wages in the hot sun.) So if US nurses are filling the positions, hospitals are not allowed to bring over foreign workers.

It's a double edged sword. They are BSN prepared and are excellent nurses. It fulfills a dire need. On the other hand it allows the profression and management not to address the issues as to why there is a shortage in the first place.

jgs284 · Apr 24, 2004

You wrote "Also note in order to hire a foreign citazen of any sort it must be proven that it is a job no US citazen wants or can fill. (Think migrant worker picking fruit for low wages in the hot sun.) So if US nurses are filling the positions, hospitals are not allowed to bring over foreign workers."

Take it from me, that is no assurance. I AM one of those out-of-work tech workers, now pursuing a nursing degree. This post made my blood run cold, because I do believe this can happen. Those Indian workers who provide tech support speak beautiful English, with only a slight accent. I can also see hospitals using this to drive pay DOWN. Supply and demand. What kills me is the wait lists to get into Nursing school here in COlorado is YEARS -- there are thousands of smart, qualified people waiting to get into clinicals. Would the state or federal government address the nursing shortage by fixing this bottleneck? No. That makes too much sense! But based on my own hard experience I can absolutely see them importing foreign, low paid nurses under some emergency exception to the visa laws. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.

:uhoh21:

jgs284 · Apr 24, 2004

You wrote "Also note in order to hire a foreign citazen of any sort it must be proven that it is a job no US citazen wants or can fill. (Think migrant worker picking fruit for low wages in the hot sun.) So if US nurses are filling the positions, hospitals are not allowed to bring over foreign workers."

Take it from me, that is no assurance. I AM one of those out-of-work tech workers, now pursuing a nursing degree. This post made my blood run cold, because I do believe this can happen. Those Indian workers who provide tech support speak beautiful English, with only a slight accent. I can also see hospitals using this to drive pay DOWN. Supply and demand. What kills me is the wait lists to get into Nursing school here in COlorado is YEARS -- there are thousands of smart, qualified people waiting to get into clinicals. Would the state or federal government address the nursing shortage by fixing this bottleneck? No. That makes too much sense! But based on my own hard experience I can absolutely see them importing foreign, low paid nurses under some emergency exception to the visa laws. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.

:uhoh21:

Sheri257 · Apr 24, 2004

Take it from me, that is no assurance. I AM one of those out-of-work tech workers, now pursuing a nursing degree. This post made my blood run cold, because I do believe this can happen. Those Indian workers who provide tech support speak beautiful English, with only a slight accent. I can also see hospitals using this to drive pay DOWN. Supply and demand. What kills me is the wait lists to get into Nursing school here in COlorado is YEARS -- there are thousands of smart, qualified people waiting to get into clinicals. Would the state or federal government address the nursing shortage by fixing this bottleneck? No. That makes too much sense! But based on my own hard experience I can absolutely see them importing foreign, low paid nurses under some emergency exception to the visa laws. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.
:uhoh21:

I see your point. But I lived in Silicon Valley during the boom years. Tech companies were importing Indian and other foreign workers in droves and, if I'm not mistaken, the visa rules were much looser then. It didn't seem have much impact on salaries, mostly because those workers had the same cost of living that we do. You could bring an Indian programmer over here, but if he worked in the Valley, he still had to pay for the outrageous housing costs. You couldn't pay him peanuts or, if you did, he probably wouldn't stick around for very long. The train wreck really didn't happen until the tech jobs themselves were exported overseas, where the cost of living is much lower and the programmers will work for peanuts.

The thing is, I don't see how you can export a nursing job. And foreign nurses do eventually demand the same wages that we do. Not too long ago a nursing home adminstrator in Orange County, CA was complaining on this message board about training foreign nurses who left her operation for better pay. No wonder since the housing costs in Orange County are outrageous, just like the Valley or, pretty much anywhere else in California. In another example, Filipino nurses successfully sued for higher pay when they were paid LVN rather than full RN salaries.

Then you have projected demand of 5,000 new nurses just in the next year, not to mention a projected shortage of at least 200,000 vacant positions in the next 20 years, and that's just in California alone. I forget what the projections are nationwide, but it's a lot more. The reason is: You can't export healthcare jobs, and we have an aging baby boom generation, still the biggest segment of the population, that's only going to increase demand.

On the other hand, I could be wrong. And I don't blame you for worrying about this. As Andy Grove said, "Only the paranoid survive." But I still think we have a better shot at job security with healthcare than any other industry, even if they bring a ton of foreign nurses over here. Afterall, they gotta eat and pay the same mortgages that we do.

Sheri257 · Apr 24, 2004

Take it from me, that is no assurance. I AM one of those out-of-work tech workers, now pursuing a nursing degree. This post made my blood run cold, because I do believe this can happen. Those Indian workers who provide tech support speak beautiful English, with only a slight accent. I can also see hospitals using this to drive pay DOWN. Supply and demand. What kills me is the wait lists to get into Nursing school here in COlorado is YEARS -- there are thousands of smart, qualified people waiting to get into clinicals. Would the state or federal government address the nursing shortage by fixing this bottleneck? No. That makes too much sense! But based on my own hard experience I can absolutely see them importing foreign, low paid nurses under some emergency exception to the visa laws. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.
:uhoh21:

I see your point. But I lived in Silicon Valley during the boom years. Tech companies were importing Indian and other foreign workers in droves and, if I'm not mistaken, the visa rules were much looser then. It didn't seem have much impact on salaries, mostly because those workers had the same cost of living that we do. You could bring an Indian programmer over here, but if he worked in the Valley, he still had to pay for the outrageous housing costs. You couldn't pay him peanuts or, if you did, he probably wouldn't stick around for very long. The train wreck really didn't happen until the tech jobs themselves were exported overseas, where the cost of living is much lower and the programmers will work for peanuts.

The thing is, I don't see how you can export a nursing job. And foreign nurses do eventually demand the same wages that we do. Not too long ago a nursing home adminstrator in Orange County, CA was complaining on this message board about training foreign nurses who left her operation for better pay. No wonder since the housing costs in Orange County are outrageous, just like the Valley or, pretty much anywhere else in California. In another example, Filipino nurses successfully sued for higher pay when they were paid LVN rather than full RN salaries.

Then you have projected demand of 5,000 new nurses just in the next year, not to mention a projected shortage of at least 200,000 vacant positions in the next 20 years, and that's just in California alone. I forget what the projections are nationwide, but it's a lot more. The reason is: You can't export healthcare jobs, and we have an aging baby boom generation, still the biggest segment of the population, that's only going to increase demand.

On the other hand, I could be wrong. And I don't blame you for worrying about this. As Andy Grove said, "Only the paranoid survive." But I still think we have a better shot at job security with healthcare than any other industry, even if they bring a ton of foreign nurses over here. Afterall, they gotta eat and pay the same mortgages that we do.

jgs284 · Apr 24, 2004

Yes! You are right! You can't outsource personal medical care. I am paranoid because I never would have believed the government would let US Companies outsource so much work. In my husband's company, they outsourced most of the IT department and this is a big DEFENSE contractor. Workers in Mexico are doing the IT work for Lockheed Martin Corporation, including personnel records and administration. I do believe if they (big business/hospitals) can figure out a way to outsource, they will, but it seems impossible, doesn't it? Thank you for your reply -- my blood is warming up! Now, if I could just get into clinicals .......