Seeing loved ones before death?

[Keila]

Hi everyone. I've spent the last few hours reading the 'nursing ghost stories' thread, and along those lines.... how many of your patients see/talk to their loved ones before they pass away?

I'm a third semester student so I don't have any nursing experiences to share, but my 74 year old grandmother (Gran), whom I love immeasurably, is losing her battle with breast cancer. She was diagnosed with stage IV last year, and to be honest, I didn't think that I would have the joy of another year with her. I have, and for that I am more grateful than I can ever put into words. Along with the cancer, she has a laundry list of other health problems, and she is on dozens of meds. We know that the cancer has metastasized to her bones and her spine, and a new onset of symptoms is suggestive of metastases to her CSF as well. She isn't "on death's door" quite yet, but I don't think we have much time left with her.

For the last four or five months, Gran has been seeing her mother (my great-grandmother, Mim, who died in 2005). Not just glimpses of her -- according to Gran, Mim is living with her. She said that she sees her every single day, and that most of the time Mim will talk with her for hours. At other times, Mim will not look at or acknowledge Gran; she'll just stand beside her, which bothers Gran tremendously. Mim was the only dead loved one that Gran would see, until recently. Her husband (who passed away in 2006) visits her, although infrequently, and they also talk. Those 'visits' don't cause Gran any distress.

I am a logical person, and I realize that Gran's age, conditions and meds most likely account for the hallucinations. But in my heart, in a place where logic does not thrive for long, I feel that she is truly seeing her mother and her husband. I've heard about people seeing dead loved ones in the days before they pass, but this has been ongoing for months. I guess I'm just trying to understand -- if you are a spiritual person, but a logical, analytical person as well, where do you draw the line between medical hallucination and spiritual occurrence?

I don't mean to ramble on... I've read these boards for a while and post rarely, but you all seem like such a good group of people. I would love to hear your experiences with things like this and your thoughts on them.

(... and thank you for sticking with a long post!)

[shiccy]

There are a lot of cultures that believe that sometimes people from 'the other side' will come to help the dying 'cross over'. I'm a believer of spirit/paranormal (Every time I read that I feel like a hippy haha), and I believe in heaven, so this doesn't surprise me that this happens.

This is a bit preachy / religious, but ...... On a side note, if you ever watch a baby when in infancy and prior to crawling, etc. they will sometimes babble to nothing in general, reach in the air, laugh, etc. Some also believe that children are able to see spirits that haven't passed, angels, etc. It's said they can see these beings because they have not sinned this far. It's also said that some certain individuals are able to see colored halos around individuals and are able to tell if they're 'bad' or 'good' (people that have committed mortal sins, etc), and also see what they best describe as "black" areas. Case after case have shown in these rare people that these 'black' areas are cancer, and typically where they see the black is where the cancer really is. Finally it is said that animals also have this ability as they don't have 'sin'.

As far as the person that commented about his ?grandpa? soon passing after he showed up and said "Larry you came!" ... people do this ALL THE TIME. They wait until they see the people in their lives that were important to them. I wish my parents would have told me when my grandparents were passing because I honestly would have been there -- sometimes they hang onto hope that they will see ONE person, and will wait until that person shows up. I'm sad that I didn't have that chance, honestly.

FWIW most docs will tell you (that don't believe in spirits/paranormal/aren't religious) that they see these folks because their brains are hypoxic and dying, so they're reliving what the neurons retain one last time before they're lost for good.

[shiccy]

FWIW w/ the OP - You need to tell your grandmother that your great grandmother is there to sit with her, but to not get sad/angry that she's not talking to her. You said she 'talks' to her on occasion, so maybe telling her that she's only allowed to talk a certain amount each day would help her? I don't know ... just make sure that your grandma is not upset during this process. Being upset just makes the transition harder.

If this continues, and she's still upset over it, PLEASE have them dose her with some Ativan to kind of settle her down. If she's DNR (don't know if she is or not) she SHOULD have it as PRN... It may help things a bit.

[Keila]

Shiccy, thanks for your comments. It's so odd -- sometimes Gran will seem happy that Mim is there; other times, it's as if she's "lost" her. She'll continually ask family if we've seen her, she'll say that she knows Mim has talked on the phone to one family member or another, but won't talk to her, she's worried that Mim is angry with her, etc.

Generally, when she gets upset like this, we can talk her down and soothe her -- sometimes we try to reorient her and tell her that Mim is dead. She will acknowledge that Mim is dead in one sentence, and in the next she'll be telling us about her being there. Or she'll say something like, "I know that you say she's dead, but I KNOW WHAT I SEE."

She is also experiencing profound personality changes, which I know goes along with the mets of her cancer. She has always been a very religious, spiritual woman, and as of late will be singing with her favorite hymns on the Gaithers' shows only to burst out with a string of curses. She'll then resume singing as if nothing happened.

We have told her doctors about the hallucinations, agitation, and personality changes, and no one has ordered her any type of anxiolytic (sp?). Her Paxil dosage has been increased, and she has been prescribed a sleeping pill, but they haven't written prescriptions for anything else.

Sorry to kind of derail the thread, but I just thought I'd share that!

[shiccy]

Sometimes docs are those "dumb smart people" ... When I call about patients and I want something specific, I ask for it outright... If I were dealing with something along these lines where she's obviously distressed about the situation, I would think an anxiolytic is most definitely appropriate. Next time you're there reiterate your concerns, tell them she's distressed by the things she's "seeing", and specifically request for Ativan, Xanax, Valium, etc. If these concerns aren't dealt w/ or the distress from her mom being there, then there is *always* the option of finding another internal med physician (obviously if everybody agrees). He probably thinks the Paxil dose will help, but she may need some extra assistance until the higher dose kicks in.

[lucylu 777]

....long story short - happend to me when I was in 4 day coma. I don't know if it was my brain going through many chemical changes during the process that played a role, but I remember my dad who passed away 9 months before my ordeal and he was holding a hand of a small child - that is all I remember - I don't know who the child was, nobody I have meat before. Years later I had had a series of bad misscarages, one of them in particular, so now I would like to think it was my dad and my unborn child waiting.

[leslie :-D]

keila, it sounds like your grandma would benefit from hospice...

they would likely give her xanax or haldol for agitation/anxiety...

and could answer your questions as well.

your grandma needs an immediate agent, and not a med that takes weeks to take effect.

leslie

[brucethehospicenurse]

Thank you intern67 for an interesting post. A question for you or all. A nurse 35 yrs, hospice for past 10. My peers and I believe that as many as 7 or 8 out of 10 of our patients either see, hear, or even smell those who have preceeded them and here is the clincher: it happens to those on meds, and those who Aren't, those who are hypoxic and those who aren't, with all kinds of different dx'es, even dementia, different nationalities, male female, all different kinds of religion or none at all, etc. I am sure u r getting my drift. I have never had an actively dying patient ever see lizard heads on human bodies or the like. Interestingly, this type of behavior seems to come at days away, not hrs or minutes away. With all that said does it still fit your model? Thanks again.

[MammaNurse2Be]

I am so sorry your Grandma is passing. I find the question interesting and will keep my eyes one as I begin my nursing journey.

[DestiNova]

@intern67, quite a claim you're making. Why are you even here?

[RainMom]

@intern67, quite a claim you're making. Why are you even here?

She/he's not. This thread is 5 yrs old.

[Julius Seizure]

I work in LTC, and have had many strange things happen. The one that stays with me the most is a resident I had that NEVER came out of her room, for any reason. One night she came running down the hallway, eyes were wild, screaming "the angel of death is in my room, please help me!"It took a looong time to calm her down, and some good old xanax, but when we took her back to her room, she said" oh I'm O.K. now, he apologized to me because he said he had the wrong room".I asked her where he went and she pointed to the room next door.I worked the next night, and didn't think too much more about it, until my tech came running to tell me Mrs. so and so had passed on. It was a resident we weren't really expecting to go at that time. Guess which room she was in? Yup, in the room where my other resident had said the "angel of death" had gone the night before!Still gives me the creeps to think about it!

Aw, silly angel of death! Always having to stop for directions!

[allee1997]

I was reading this thread because I'm losing a beloved grandparent and wondered how common it was for people to report seeing deceased loved ones before passing. My comment is for each of you nurses who comfort the hundreds of people who pass in your presence. Thank you for caring so much and being there when someone needs you. So many of us are afraid to do that.