RN with expired license calling in scripts for family...family wants us to do it too.

edmia, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2013

I wanted to ask everyone's opinion on a situation. I have 2 aunts who are RNs. One is still practicing, and does not get involved with doing shady things for our family related to medicine. Because of this my family has considers her the less competant nurse.
My other aunt stopped practicing nursing when I was about 15 (I'm in my mid 30s now) and is dianosed with bipolar. I remember gowing up her being the go to nurse in the family, everyone saying she should have been a doctor yada yada.
Well, I'm been a nurse for nearly 10 years, and I can now see how she "operates". She dianoses members of my family, and will call in scripts. I don't know which doctor she is using, but I doubt he or she knows. I do not do this, and take the same position as my other aunt, while I don't mind giving a little advise, when someone comes to me that has not been to a doc in 20+ years (my dad) asking about something that could be many different things, I tell him he really needs to get into a doctor. Also my hubby is a P.A. and they have asked him to call in scripts for them and he won't do it, and I agree with this 100%.
This past winter my dad was having abd pain (he did not tell me about it, as I am of no use because I will not dianose and treat him over the phone). He called my aunt (the one that is no longer working, and she told him he had shingles (*****) and that the pain would last for months. SO about 2 months later, he finally said something to me...and I told him he needed to get into the doctors, that why would she pick that diagnosis and give him this false sense of security, so he ignored this on going pain?? He said she asked him if he had a rash and he said he had a blister in his abd, that she never even looked at...
I aksed his a few questions and found out his abd was tender and distended...ugh...I told him to go into the ER...and he said No, it was just linger pain from shingles like my stupid aunt told him.
2 days later he developed a fever, and he called me, and I told him to go into the ER now, or he my die...he went in that night and he had diverticulitis and his bowel had already begun to perferate...I was so mad at my aunt. I told her don't you dare play doctor with my dad again, but she's out in lala land an told me that my dad said he had a blister so it sound like shingles.
Thankfully my dad was ok after a long hospital stay. After finishing abt, he was supposed to go back and have the microperforation repaired...and hasn't...
Anyway I told him, just because me and my husband don't phone diagnose or call in scripits (which I can't even legally do) doesn't mean you should use my wacko aunt for medical treatment. I said she pretty much gave you advice that could have killed you.
Anyway, yesterday my cousin texted me to ask my husband to call in antibiotics for her, and I told her no. I told her I'm sorry this family is used to my aunt handling things the way she has for years and years, and I'm sorry that you all think of that type of conduct as bein a good nurse, but its not. THe wierd part was she said she "went to the ER a few weeks ago for a uti, and the doc said you DH could call in more meds if I need them, so would he call in so macrobid cause the uti didn't go away"...
Even DH thought this was weird because none of his docs would do that, and actually none of the docs would know she knew my husband unless she told them...also he said no doc would be like "hey if this macrbid doesn't work, take some more!" Her text seemed like she was lieing...HD said he probably won't say anything to the doc because what my cousin said sounds like complete BS anyway. He said tell her to go back to the ER and get checked again. Either its resistant, or its something else. And we also know that my cousin sleeps around (she tells me) so maybe even an STD? He said usually when someone comes back for a second visit for a uti, then they will check for certain stds. I also know from her telling me that she has hpv...basically there might be more going on there ,and it doesn't make sense what she said in her text...
I have a huge family (HUGE) and I do not want my husband to be the next Aunt X that every one thinks will do everything on the side for them. Actually, my dad asked me last year (before the abd pain) if he could go into DH ER and get treated for free....Like he wanted my DH to "sneek" him in....smh
Now my concern is that my aunt will start calling in scripts (not narc just abt and BP meds etc) under my DH name. Basically DH said there's no way to know unless he calls every pharmacy in the area (for uncontrolled meds). I feel so bad that my family is doing this but he says don't worry about it.
I just needed to tell some other nurses about this. Its very upsetting that my family is doing this. I have no intention of reporting my aunt, because I don't know the details, but I now worry she will use my DH name....I have kind of always wondered which doc she is using when she has done this in the past. I am also annoyed that my family think me and DH (and my other aunt who is a really great nurse) are "not the smart" because we don't diagnose over the phone or call in scripts. My family has such a warped idea of what is proper conduct for a nurse that they see our conduct as something a stupid medical person would do, I think they mistake lack of intervention for not knowing anything...
Sorry about the long vent. Sorry for typos.

I don't care that she's your aunt. She's putting people in danger.

I would report her.

That woman is dangerous!

Sent from my iPhone using allnurses.com

ComeTogether, LPN · Jun 29, 2013

I would try to figure out what pharmacy and call them and tell them whats happening. maybe sneak a look at the script bottle to see what pharmacy this family member uses? Then call the pharmacy and the police. That is 50 shades of wrong, wrong wrong.

NicuGal, MSN, RN · Jun 29, 2013

Sorry, she almost killed your father, that would be enough to send me batpoop crazy on her. You know what you need to do, before she kills someone or gets your DH in trouble if she starts calling in scripts. And if your family doesn't get it, too bad.

CharleeFoxtrot, BSN, RN · Jun 29, 2013

Turn her in before she kills someone. As an aside, can someone simply use a physician's name to call a script in? Don't they have to give a DEA number or something? Pardon my ignorance, I've only worked in the hospital setting where stuff never gets called in.

Long Term Care Columnist / Guide · Jun 30, 2013

Yes, the aunt should be reported to someone who has the ability to stop her ASAP. I think we've established that her conduct is wrong on many different levels, and something must be done before she does kill somebody.

What I think has been lost here is the fact that the woman is mentally ill. She has what sounds to be uncontrolled bipolar disorder, which puts her at extreme risk of making life-altering (and BAD) decisions. I don't know if she's medicated or undergoing psychotherapy, but I have to assume she's not since her behavior is so bizarre (not to mention foolish!). I do know that when people with this illness go untreated for as long as I imagine she has, they lack insight, their judgment is poor, and any impulse control they might ordinarily have goes out the window.

This does not for a moment excuse her behavior. Even sick people have to take responsibility for their actions, and in your aunt's case, the sooner the better. I don't know how she's managed to get away with this for so many years, or why on earth other members of your family think it's just dandy to have a nurse around who manipulates the system in order to get them what she (or they) think they need. But wouldn't it be better to approach this issue from its origin, namely her psychiatric condition?

If she has a doctor or psychiatrist, you may want to place a call to him/her and describe the situation. If she's not seeing anyone, she may need to go to a mental health facility for a time and get stabilized. Jails and prisons are generally NOT the best places to obtain mental health care; unfortunately, they've replaced psychiatric hospitals as the primary care setting for severely mentally ill individuals, and if she is turned in to the police that is where she will go.

These are just a few things to consider, but I wouldn't advise waiting much longer to prevent her from ruining your husband's practice or "prescribing" medications for other family members. I know that's not going to make you popular with those folks, but you have a license to protect, and if it were someone outside the family, you probably wouldn't think twice about reporting her/him.

Best of luck to you. You are going to need it.

OCNRN63, RN · Jun 30, 2013

Turn her in before she kills someone. As an aside, can someone simply use a physician's name to call a script in? Don't they have to give a DEA number or something? Pardon my ignorance, I've only worked in the hospital setting where stuff never gets called in.

I worked somewhere where dr's DEAs were on a rolodex; plus some of them you called in so much you had them memorized.

Altra, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2013

She has what sounds to be uncontrolled bipolar disorder, which puts her at extreme risk of making life-altering (and BAD) decisions. I don't know if she's medicated or undergoing psychotherapy, but I have to assume she's not since her behavior is so bizarre (not to mention foolish!). I do know that when people with this illness go untreated for as long as I imagine she has, they lack insight, their judgment is poor, and any impulse control they might ordinarily have goes out the window.
This does not for a moment excuse her behavior. Even sick people have to take responsibility for their actions, and in your aunt's case, the sooner the better. I don't know how she's managed to get away with this for so many years, or why on earth other members of your family think it's just dandy to have a nurse around who manipulates the system in order to get them what she (or they) think they need. But wouldn't it be better to approach this issue from its origin, namely her psychiatric condition?
If she has a doctor or psychiatrist, you may want to place a call to him/her and describe the situation. If she's not seeing anyone, she may need to go to a mental health facility for a time and get stabilized. Jails and prisons are generally NOT the best places to obtain mental health care; unfortunately, they've replaced psychiatric hospitals as the primary care setting for severely mentally ill individuals, and if she is turned in to the police that is where she will go.

I don't disagree with these points.

However, from the OP's description, this individual has quite the group of enablers in the extended family. And it's quite the codependent relationship, as she provides something they regard as desirable.

For these reasons ... I believe drastic outside intervention is warranted. Yes, even law enforcement. And let's not forget, there is another party here - the physician whose name she is presumably using when phoning in prescriptions. That person is either a) an accomplice committing fraud or b) an unsuspecting provider whose practice reputation is being compromised fraudulently.

BettyBoopsRN · Jun 30, 2013

Thank you some for the replies. SOme people seemed to miss read what I said. We are not involved in my aunts conduct at all. WE (myself or DH) are not enabling her, and I feel the rest of the family that uses her services just sees it as free access to meds.

My aunt does not call in any kind of pain pills. 90% of it, to my understanding, is antibiotics. THat doesn't make it right, but it seemed a few people didn't get that.

A few people also assume I see my aunt and go to her house to look at her pill bottles. I don't. I only talked to her over the phone when this happened with my dad. I haven't been to her house, in idk, probably 20 years. I don't have a clue what pharmacies she uses. I assume it would vary between who she's calling it in for. I don't know how often or each time its done. I just know its done. She may call in scripts once a year, or one a week. I am left in the dark because I have expressed my disaproval of this.

I was mostly annoyed that my family thought that my DH would do this for them as well. I know that my answer to the recent request will be gossiped about and we will likely not be approached about it again.

SOmeone on here, like the 3rd or 4th response said I need to grow up that what I'm doing is illegal?? Um how about you reread my post. I haven't done anything, and I'm not being bullied. That was just an annoying response, because it was ovbous you didn't read what I said. I'm just venting because by NOT doing what my family wants I get the label of a bad nurse, but I really don't give a crap and it would never make me do something I shouldnt.. gees...

Altra, BSN, RN · Jun 30, 2013

You might want to consider again whether or not you are being bullied by your family. If you "didn't give a crap" you would likely not have discussed the situation here.

And you might want to consider again your duties and responsibilities as a licensed professional to report fraud and malpractice of which you have knowledge.

Wishing you well.

BettyBoopsRN · Jun 30, 2013

I was a member of this site years ago and left because it annoyed me. I only rejoined because I wanted to express this crumby situation to other nurses. If I had more details about my aunt I would have already done what needed to be done. But I don't. I can't even be sure the last time she did it, though I know its been done before. Mistake rejoining here. Same annoying stuff...P.O.

BlueDevil,DNP, DNP, RN · Jun 30, 2013

Thank you some for the replies. SOme people seemed to miss read what I said. We are not involved in my aunts conduct at all. WE (myself or DH) are not enabling her, and I feel the rest of the family that uses her services just sees it as free access to meds.
My aunt does not call in any kind of pain pills. 90% of it, to my understanding, is antibiotics. THat doesn't make it right, but it seemed a few people didn't get that.
A few people also assume I see my aunt and go to her house to look at her pill bottles. I don't. I only talked to her over the phone when this happened with my dad. I haven't been to her house, in idk, probably 20 years. I don't have a clue what pharmacies she uses. I assume it would vary between who she's calling it in for. I don't know how often or each time its done. I just know its done. She may call in scripts once a year, or one a week. I am left in the dark because I have expressed my disaproval of this.
I was mostly annoyed that my family thought that my DH would do this for them as well. I know that my answer to the recent request will be gossiped about and we will likely not be approached about it again.
SOmeone on here, like the 3rd or 4th response said I need to grow up that what I'm doing is illegal?? Um how about you reread my post. I haven't done anything, and I'm not being bullied. That was just an annoying response, because it was ovbous you didn't read what I said. I'm just venting because by NOT doing what my family wants I get the label of a bad nurse, but I really don't give a crap and it would never make me do something I shouldnt.. gees...

Your welcome for the reply, although I assume you are only thanking for the ones you liked. Pardon me, but you are the one who is misreading. I did not say you we enabling your aunt, I said you were enabling your families manipulative behavior. You are, or they would not send you text with nonsense stores like the one you relayed.

You are involved, because you know about it. What she is doing is illegal. No one said anything about controlled substances. What does that have to do with it? I don't care if the only thing she ever calls is PenVK, it's illegal. She needs to be charged. You are aware of said crime, that makes you a party to it, ergo you are responsible for any consequences of her actions if you fail to act.

No one thinks you have been to her house to look at her pill bottles. READ girl. A few suggested you could look at the prescriber names on some of your Dad's or other family members pill bottles, if you happened to see them, (or have you not been to your father's home in 20 years?) in order to determine if your husband's name is being used.

As I said, in my "annoying" response (I was trying very hard to be nice to you, btw), I do not think you could be charged if your aunts actions cause harm, but you are morally and ethically accountable. Even lacking the moral fiber, you have a professional duty to act. All of your colleagues in the thread have told you so.

I almost said in my post :cue the backpeddle: because I knew from the outset you weren't going to do a thing about this egregious and dangerous situation. So I repeat, grow up. I'm glad your aunt doesn't have a license, but if this is an example of your professional ethics, you shouldn't have one either.

jadelpn, LPN, EMT-B · Jun 30, 2013

Thank you some for the replies. SOme people seemed to miss read what I said. We are not involved in my aunts conduct at all. WE (myself or DH) are not enabling her, and I feel the rest of the family that uses her services just sees it as free access to meds.
My aunt does not call in any kind of pain pills. 90% of it, to my understanding, is antibiotics. THat doesn't make it right, but it seemed a few people didn't get that.
A few people also assume I see my aunt and go to her house to look at her pill bottles. I don't. I only talked to her over the phone when this happened with my dad. I haven't been to her house, in idk, probably 20 years. I don't have a clue what pharmacies she uses. I assume it would vary between who she's calling it in for. I don't know how often or each time its done. I just know its done. She may call in scripts once a year, or one a week. I am left in the dark because I have expressed my disaproval of this.
I was mostly annoyed that my family thought that my DH would do this for them as well. I know that my answer to the recent request will be gossiped about and we will likely not be approached about it again.
SOmeone on here, like the 3rd or 4th response said I need to grow up that what I'm doing is illegal?? Um how about you reread my post. I haven't done anything, and I'm not being bullied. That was just an annoying response, because it was ovbous you didn't read what I said. I'm just venting because by NOT doing what my family wants I get the label of a bad nurse, but I really don't give a crap and it would never make me do something I shouldnt.. gees...

Here is the problem, though, You know it is happening. As a licensed nurse you have an ethical duty to act. Do you honestly believe for one moment that your aunt would not throw you under the bus "well, my neice the practicing RN knew all about it and didn't tell me it was wrong". You could in fact lose your license over this. Truly.

Your aunt is mentally ill. This makes her judgement less than ideal. That you are questioning if she is calling under your husband's name is another HUGE thing. And she could say that he gave his permission to do so. And there would be no way to prove that he did not. Especially if she has his information (his DEA #, etc)

There must be some sort of database to find out what prescriptions have been filled under your husband's number, I would review it to make sure your various family members are not on it. If they are, this really needs to be taken to the next level.

You know that what your family does or doesn't do says nothing about what kind of a nurse you are. Annoying, but never the less, it has not a thing to do with it. Who cares if they think you are a bad nurse? But the BON may have a great deal to say if this comes to light and you are swept into this garbage as well.....just because you knew about it, and did not act.