Religion's Place in Nursing - page 22

I often read Billy Graham's column and thought today's was particulary pertinent to our profession. I'm just curious as to your own personal thoughts and feelings on the matter. (Please, no... Read More

  1. by   dlscott
    Quote from caroladybelle
    I do not believe in Christ as I do not believe in original sin, thus a G-d that would require a sacrifice of his son has no meaning for me. It also would be wrong for me to worship a G-d that would behave in such a manner. Mine is a G-d of loving, caring and concern, not of ill doing.

    Therefore Mr.Graham's arguments are moot.

    Therefore I must pass on your "know Christ" offer as I have done so many times before...when offered so many "proof discussions" before.

    So Luke was a doctor, where was he licensed and what was his specialty? Many MDs of his time bled people to death trying to cure illness. Evidence has shown that people were buried alive by accident, up into the last 100 years, due to being in comas and diagnosed as "dead". Doctors marked people as witches and listed them as possessed by demons, when they had seizures. Doctors in the middle ages as well as theologians debated as to whether women even had human souls. They identified birth marks as marks of evil. Such "respected" doctors as Freud had Cocaine habits, just as some MDs do today. MDs in the early 20th century listed seizures in women as being caused by nymphomania and had their genitals mutilated to "cure" them.

    So saying Luke was a Physician means very little when one reviews physicians in the great scheme of history.

    Faith is a thing of belief first and foremost. Not requiring proof, whatsoever.

    Would that those that preach great Faith actually respected those of other Faiths, enough not to play "prove it to me" games with the Faith that they value and espouse because there is little that can be "proven" undoubtably in this world.
    I don't understand how a person can be a nurse, see life and death as much as we do and NOT believe in God. Our bodies are miracles....they could never "just happen". I am a hospice nurse and I see death on a daily basis. I will tell you who dies the easiest and most peaceful...the Christians. They have a hope of life beyond and know that though they do not want to leave behind their loved ones, they have a Lord that is waiting to give them wondrous things that their minds could not even imagine. The non-Christians usually die with more pain, angry and have a hard time reconciling the fact that they are dying. I have sat by the bedside of so many people as life as slipped from them. It in itself is a mysterious but wondrous thing to see life from beginning to end. I have sat at the bedside of my father and my mother, who were christians, and knew the love they had for each other. My mother told my father "i will be waiting for you" and my father told her "I will mourn for you but envy that you are there before me". Eternity is a long time....think before you can no longer make a decision about it.
  2. by   nursemjb
    Quote from dlscott
    I don't understand how a person can be a nurse, see life and death as much as we do and NOT believe in God. Our bodies are miracles....they could never "just happen". I am a hospice nurse and I see death on a daily basis. I will tell you who dies the easiest and most peaceful...the Christians. They have a hope of life beyond and know that though they do not want to leave behind their loved ones, they have a Lord that is waiting to give them wondrous things that their minds could not even imagine. The non-Christians usually die with more pain, angry and have a hard time reconciling the fact that they are dying. I have sat by the bedside of so many people as life as slipped from them. It in itself is a mysterious but wondrous thing to see life from beginning to end. I have sat at the bedside of my father and my mother, who were christians, and knew the love they had for each other. My mother told my father "i will be waiting for you" and my father told her "I will mourn for you but envy that you are there before me". Eternity is a long time....think before you can no longer make a decision about it.
    Discott,

    You said it very well......I do not have the skills with words that you do....yesterday someone said that believing because of fear is a trivial reason.....but my opinion is whatever reason gets you to believe in Jesus is the right one. I just keep thinking of Bible verses...."be prepared to give a reason for the hope you have".....I look forward to meeting you in heaven someday......your hospice patients are very fortunate to have a nurse like you....God bless you. P. S. I know someone who lives in Canton, OH - she's the president of a fan club I belong to.
    Last edit by nursemjb on May 13, '04
  3. by   sbic56
    dlscott

    It may be your perception that "christians die easiest", but do not try to state it as fact. I sat with my dear mother as she breathed her last breath and she made the most peaceful and conmfortable exit that I can imagine. Same with Gramma. And Dad. All of them were wonderful, compassionate people who adored life and all it had to offer. They gave of themselves to those they loved and have left fond memories to us all. In their end, they gracefully and courageously accepted death. And they were not chrisitians. My brother, the christian, said mom was going to hell and stayed away. What a guy. My sister and I sat by her and felt honored to be by her side and feel her spirit as it left her body. The warmth and love we felt convinced us that she was more than flesh and blood that ended on that day. To hear some say she went to hell as she left us is irritating to say the least, but we know better.
  4. by   FranEMTnurse
    Quote from nursemjb
    Discott,

    You said it very well......I do not have the skills with words that you do....yesterday someone said that believing because of fear is a trivial reason.....but my opinion is whatever reason gets you to believe in Jesus is the right one. I just keep thinking of Bible verses...."be prepared to give a reason for the hope you have".....I look forward to meeting you in heaven someday......your hospice patients are very fortunate to have a nurse like you....God bless you. P. S. I know someone who lives in Canton, OH - she's the president of a fan club I belong to.
    I second your message to Discott.
  5. by   FranEMTnurse
    Quote from sbic56
    dlscott

    It may be your perception that "christians die easiest", but do not try to state it as fact. I sat with my dear mother as she breathed her last breath and she made the most peaceful and conmfortable exit that I can imagine. Same with Gramma. And Dad. All of them were wonderful, compassionate people who adored life and all it had to offer. They gave of themselves to those they loved and have left fond memories to us all. In their end, they gracefully and courageously accepted death. And they were not chrisitians. My brother, the christian, said mom was going to hell and stayed away. What a guy. My sister and I sat by her and felt honored to be by her side and feel her spirit as it left her body. The warmth and love we felt convinced us that she was more than flesh and blood that ended on that day. To hear some say she went to hell as she left us is irritating to say the least, but we know better.
    I have an idea you're going to seem again one day.
  6. by   sbic56
    Quote from Frances LeMay
    I have an idea you're going to seem again one day.
    Typo there I think, Fran. What were you saying?
  7. by   FranEMTnurse
    Quote from sbic56
    Typo there I think, Fran. What were you saying?
    No, it wasn't a type o at all. I meant what I said. There's a place in the old testament that mentions the valley of dry bones. Hence the old song, " head bone connected to the neck bone etc. those are the words of the Lord" It states there that those people will be resurrected again after Christ returns, and will live once again for a period of time, still giving them a chance to accept Jesus as their Savior. You know, there are literally billions of people who never even heard of the name, "Jesus" who have died. What about them. This is when they will be brought back to life, and re-educated in a completely benevolent environment where children will even be able to play at the den of a deadly asp, and the lamb will then be with the lion.
    That time is called, "The Millenium." It is during that period that it is my hope to be able to teach all who have hurt me how to love instead. And is also the time when even my own grandmother who wasn't a Christian, but was one of the most wonderful persons I ever had the privilege to not only be related to, but also to care for before she died. She drew her last breath in my arms, and is the person who named me when I was born, because my parents couldn't think of a name to give me. My chances weren't very good for surviving then because I was the smallest of a set of twins, weighing only 3 pounds, 11 ounces, born in 1943.
  8. by   sbic56
    OK...I hadn't heard of this extra life to get another chance. So what you are saying is that people get lots of "chances" to accept Jesus? Not just this life? That contradicts what many say...

    Oh..and it was your wording of, "you're going to seem again one day" that confused me. That doesn't really make sense, so I thought it was a typo.
  9. by   shel_wny
    I can't help but notice the "God speak" splashed all over these boards. I am not Christian myself, but I respect everyone's right to their own spiritual path. Just wondering if the Christianity is due to the death experienced by everyone daily at work, or if lots of nurses just happen to be Christian guys and girls.
    I'm quite curious about this and I'm not interested in any religion vs. religion discussion whatsoever. Just wondering if spirituality is sort of a means of keeping yourself sane as a nurse.

    Thanks!

    Shel
  10. by   cenote
    Quote from shel_wny
    I can't help but notice the "God speak" splashed all over these boards. I am not Christian myself, but I respect everyone's right to their own spiritual path. Just wondering if the Christianity is due to the death experienced by everyone daily at work, or if lots of nurses just happen to be Christian guys and girls.
    I'm quite curious about this and I'm not interested in any religion vs. religion discussion whatsoever. Just wondering if spirituality is sort of a means of keeping yourself sane as a nurse.

    Thanks!

    Shel
    Unfortunately, you are confusing religion and spirituality. Many people are spiritual without being religious. And I know many "religious" people who are not spiritual. Sprituality doesn't have to have anything to do with belief in Christ as the savior. It can simply be defined as having a feeling of well being and peace with one's place in the world. Our obligation as nurses is to assist our patients to find comfort in whatever brings them this feeling of well being.
    If a patient asks me to pray with them and I am not of their belief, I simply bow my head and let them lead. Anything contrary actions on my part would be a violation of my oath to "do no harm".
  11. by   Stitchie
    I was raised Catholic, went to Catholic school, university, etc. I was married in the Catholic church. Then when my husband and I couldn't have children, I heard from many other Catholics was "It's God's will".

    I was even told that I would go to h*ll if I chose assisted reproductive technologies, which I did anyway, to no avail.

    That broke my heart in more was than you can imagine. But that's another thread.

    I no longer consider myself a Catholic, although I work at a Catholic hospital. I have found this institution to be 20 years behind in technology, etc that it's been a difficult transition for me. Perhaps this is the h*ll I was meant to go to.

    I do consider myself a Christian, and a good one, but I do not bring that to work with me. Catholicism simply doesn't feed me anymore.

    I would never tell someone in pain that it's "God's will" or that there is divine reasoning for dying in horrible pain. I'd argue for more pain medicine for my patient if that's what they want. I don't see anything redemptive about unrelieved pain, no matter what our "Spiritual leaders" say about it.

    If a patient wants a pastor/priest/rabbi, I will happily call the requested person for them to pray/talk/confess.
  12. by   Kyriaka
    I am a Greek Orthodox Christian and it is part of who I am. I dont push my faith on other people. If they ask me a question I answer it (my Easter is almost always 2 weeks--5 weeks later than everyone elses so that usually starts a discussion in the workplace).

    But the one thing that just irritates me is people coming up to me (particularly in this part of the country) and saying, "but do you know 100% that you are saved!?"
  13. by   leslie :-D
    well i'm glad this isn't going to be one of those religion discussions. i think that nurses were probably spiritual before they entered nsg....better yet, let me speak for myself; i've always been very spiritual and it has helped me in numerous ways as a nurse. i work mostly with people that are dying and my spirituality has made me unafraid of death. my spirituality has assisted me in acceptance and handling of troubling situations everywhere in my life. this is an invaluable tool in nursing, i strongly believe.

    leslie

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