religion and nursing

paslene · Feb 20, 2004

Hey everyone. I am a beginning nursing student wondering about a few things. I was contemplating the idea of working in oncology, but Im unsure about how to handle the death experience. I am an agnostic/borderline athiest. I was questioning whether I would be able to provide complete care of a patient with different religious views. What Im wondering is if I can still be a good nurse in a setting where I am bound to deal with this situation over and over again.
We studied clutural differences in class today. We were told that it is our responsiblity as nurses to care for patients regardless of cultural differences. Im not questioning my ability to care for a dying patient in a physical way, but more of the spiritual part of it. I try to respect all beliefs. Would it be wrong to pray with a patient even if I dont believe in it? If a patient asks for comfort and to be told that they are going to heaven would it be ok to tell them yes even if I do not belive in a life after death? I dont think I would mind doing these things for a patient if asked, Im justs wondering if it is moral to do so.
I did a search for athiest nurses, and this forum is what I came up with. I got to read part of a really hot debate on this topic, but I think it got locked down. Im not trying to start another religious debate, but I was wondering about all of this. I guess the bottom line of what Im asking is if it is ok to pretend to believe what someone else does in order to give them comfort?
Any feedback would be appreciated and please remeber that I am only a nursing student with no experience yet.

Today 2/20/04 3:52pm

Paslene

hi alikat70

I understand your dilemma however, your focus should really be on the quality of care you will be able to provide to the dying patient rather than what religion that patient practices. To be a good nurse in this situation, it is important that you are nonjudgmental at all times and respect the patients beliefs and values even when they differ from yours. It is a very difficult situation but try not to impose your values or beliefs on the patient nor give the patient false hope by pretending to agree with their religious beliefs. In this case it would be helpful to keep quiet about your own beliefs or atheism since your disclosure may not go over well with the patient.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Feb 21, 2004

Today 2/20/04 3:52pm
To be a good nurse in this situation, it is important that you are nonjudgmental at all times and respect the patients beliefs and values even when they differ from yours.
In this case it would be helpful to keep quiet about your own beliefs or atheism since your disclosure may not go over well with the patient.

And if asked, the poster should say what?????

The sentences really are in opposition to one another. We are expected to respect the patients' beliefs and yet not expect respect for ours.

mitchsmom · Feb 21, 2004

And if asked, the poster should say what????? ...We are expected to respect the patients' beliefs and yet not expect respect for ours.

That's kind of true but I think we should evaluate the individual situation and decide... I mean, if there's an old Southern Baptist Christian woman dying in a cancer unit that is going to seriously be distressed if I tell her I'm an atheist, I'm not going to open that can of worms at that time, know what I mean? I'd probably try to avoid it by changing the subject, making a funny, or saying something like the classic "I don't discuss religion or politics", or "I wish I could chat right now but we've got to get this shot over with before shift change (of course then you may get asked later!). And if she is really needing some religious counsel, I'm with those who suggested offering the clergy services. If they really pressed the subject I may just say I'm not religious, but like I said I think it would have to be on a case by case basis. But if someone were dying I would definitely defer to their comfort and not worry about respect for my beliefs at that particular time.

zenman · Feb 21, 2004

I am an agnostic/borderline athiest.

Borderline? Pick a side, LOL! Join the ARMY...there are no athiests in a foxhole.

iiwdn · Feb 21, 2004

Respecting others is precisely the issue. The way you do this is the utmost of good spirituality. Morals, who's right and who's wrong, don't count as spirituality. Sounds like you are on the higher road-- continue on!!

Owney · Apr 21, 2004

The Only Good Religion

I was born into a Roman Catholic family of six children. I went to public school for kindergarten, since my local Catholic school did not have one. I went to first grade in one Catholic school and second grade in another since my family had moved. When we moved again, it was too late to enroll me in the local Catholic school for that year, so I went to public school for third grade. My mother decided to leave me in public school and let me attend Catechism, since she did not want me to have to switch to a fifth school in as many years. Going to public school for third grade was a mixed blessing for me. I learned to print in second grade, but in those days cursive handwriting was not taught until third grade in Catholic schools. So, I was behind in handwriting. I was, however, way ahead of all of the other children since I had learned to read by phonics, and not by word recognition, as everyone in public schools had been. When the teacher found out how well I could read, she would frequently have me read for the class. This helped to deal with some of my diminished self-esteem at having to learn cursive handwriting. I never did get really good with cursive, as I still print much of the time to this day.

I must say that I probably got the last of the good religious education from the Catholic Church.

I felt one of the most attractive aspects of Catholicism was its immutability. "These are the rules. If you don't like them, find another church." The mass was conducted every day, and we were required to attend every Sunday. The mass was in spoken or sung in Latin. Our missal was like an operatic libretto, giving us subtitles to follow this deliberately "dead" language. We were taught that there were venial sins, and mortal sins. Venial sins could be forgiven through prayer, but we could only be absolved of mortal sins by confessing them to a priest. We could not take communion with mortal sins on our souls. We were only required to take communion once a year, so the confessional line was usually quite long just before Easter Sunday. Catholic marriages were for life, there being no divorce, but separations were not forbidden. Neither party could ever re-marry. If I wanted to find out what the mass would be like, all I had to do was to look in my missal. The rules were well defined and understandable by most of us in high school.

After I graduated from high school (and Catechism), the church adopted "Vatican II." Everything changed. The altar was turned around and the mass was performed in English, taking away the art and beauty Latin, and leaving it subject to the ever-changing characteristics of a dynamic, living language. I was on shaky ground with the church when I came back from Viet Nam. We now had guitar masses and other silly attempts to "modernize" the mass. One mass I attended the priest said, "I am supposed to ask you to all shake hands and greet each other, but I know that in twenty minutes, you will all be trying to run over each other in the parking lot, so we will dispense with that." One of my sisters had had a Catholic wedding. After a few years of fighting they went to the priest and were granted an annulment, so she was allowed another Catholic wedding. All of the rules have changed so much that I feel that I did not leave the church, but that the church left me.

I went to Viet Nam as an agnostic if not an atheist. On our way to Pearl Harbor I was impressed with our navigator's ability to find a pinpoint the minute of our arrival in the middle of the largest ocean in the world. I believe it also renewed my faith in God. My faith was buttressed the night when we survived a typhoon in an area where four ships exactly like mine went down during WWII with the loss of hundreds of lives. I said a prayer, "God, get me through this night, and I will never doubt you again." Our ship set a record for her type in the number of miles steamed during that cruise. We did not lose a man. We survived several combat engagements where we could watch the death that we inflicted on the enemy. We watch F4 Phantoms covering hillsides with napalm, and people being dismembered an immolated on the beach by our five inch guns. God did bring us all back alive. So my belief in God had been restored, but I felt that there was no church that fulfill my religious needs.

I did go back to mass occasionally and still do to this day. Each mass seems sillier than the last, although I do like the greetings and blessings that we exchange. I did even take communion once, but only because I was at a wedding where there were no other Catholic friend in attendance who would know that I had not confessed mortal sins to a priest. One is not supposed to take Holy Communion with mortal sins on one's soul. I did say my confession directly to God, (like a Protestant) said my Act of Contrition and penance. I may one day go to confession and thus reconcile me with the church, but this would require me to abide by some rules that I cannot live with. I believe I would have no problem convincing my wife to re-marry me in a Catholic marriage since she might agree to raise any children Catholic. Since she had a pan hysterectomy in her twenties, neither that nor birth control would be much of an issue.

Where I take issue with the church is their exclusivity clause, "I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have strange gods before thee." The Catholic Church forbids believing in any other entity or force, which could influence life on earth or in the hereafter. For a number of years I hung out with a group of born again Christians. These folks were the finest examples of practicing what Jesus taught us--how to help each other. What troubled me was when one of them told me that regardless of how much good you do on earth, if you do not accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior, you will not get into Heaven. The Catholics do not say that. They say that once you have been confirmed you must follow the rules, but those that have never heard the word you could get into Heaven, if you've been good.

My wife, a non-Catholic, and I have had many discussions about Purgatory. Purgatory is something that the Catholic Church has over all other Christians. I find it hard to believe that there is not some form of only paying for our sins by how bad they are. I simply cannot believe that since I have lived in sin all these years in a non-Catholic marriage, I will be burning in the eternal fires of Hell right next to Adolph Hitler. It might be nice to have conversations with Adolph, Josef Stalin, Idi Amin, Andre Chouchescu, and Sadaam Hussein, but not forever. If I died today I would proudly stand before Saint Peter and he might send me to Purgatory for a few weeks to pay for my sins. He might not, because I believe he will consider the amount of "hell on earth" I have already suffered. After I have paid my dues I would be able to walk through the Pearly Gates into the Promised Land.

I first heard of Unitarians from the folksinger Utah Phillips, who said that he had performed in their churches in Utah, a state that has very few public performance venues. In the late eighties I discovered Unitarian Universalism. A friend took us to First Friday, a monthly social event at our local U-U Church. We went to three or four of them before I discovered that Stan, another First Friday attendee, was the MINISTER. A few weeks after that I saw a letter to the editor of our local paper which said that our state governor was a member of the U-U Church, which does not require a belief in God! So we decided to check it out. At the first service a lady stood in the pulpit and said that there was no testament of faith. My wife and I signed the book that day. We could believe anything we wanted, or so we thought. After hanging around for a while we learned we could not believe anything we wanted, but that we were obligated, as thinkers, to find faith that we could believe and follow. This has led me to be a religious eclectic. Every recent poll has shown that most modern Catholics "pick and choose" those precepts of Catholicism they choose to live by, especially in the area of birth control (thank God, he even created many of THEM with the ability to think). So I CAN be a practicing Catholic, MY way. But I can also be a Jew, Moslem, Buddhist, Shinto, Voodoo, Zoroastrian, Druid, Pagan, Nature Worshiper, Native American, First Nation Member, Ignostic, Agnostic, Humanist, Atheist, and member of any other religion or belief which has something good to offer me.

Most of my religion today is Roman Catholic. I wear a St. Christopher medal on my dog tag chain and pray to him frequently, since he has pulled me through so many perilous journeys. I believe in St. Christopher in spite of the fact that a few years ago the Vatican decided that he, like St. Nicholas, might never have existed. But I also practice a lot of First Nation/Native American beliefs. Last year I did a sun dance in my back yard to fend off intermittent showers for our yard sale. It worked. I frequently pray to the planets, sun, moon and stars. Even in my Catholic prayers I remember to thank God for giving me the wisdom to do this.

The only church I belong to is Unitarian-Universalist. It is the only "organized" religion which allows me to embrace the best of ALL religions without buying their priciples which do not fit me. If anyone who is interested enough to have read this far, I will post, "Ten Reasons to Join a Unitarian-Universalist Congregation."

Love,

:kiss