This radio ad ENRAGED me

canesdukegirl, BSN, RN · Oct 28, 2011

You don't know what you're talking about until you have cancer.
And that's all i have to say about that.

Would you be willing to expand on your opinion, OCN? I would love to get your view on this.

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Oct 28, 2011

I agree completely. I would extend that statement this far - two of my children have had cancer, one brain tumor, one AML. One is alive and thriving, approaching 10 years out, one died nearly 5 years ago now after a pretty brutal, futile SCT, ventilator treatment and ultimate parental nightmare of having to decide when it was enough. I feel very qualified to speak on this issue and have powerful feelings on it.
Healing gardens? Great! Love it! My son would have wanted one with puppies in it and I would have rejoiced for him. Docs with a good personality and gentle demeanor? Of course. We need that. ETC ETC. We can have all those things and not be selling lies. One does not exclude the other. The implied promise of remission is the big issue here.

I'm so sorry not.done.yet. :hug: I can't even imagine how hard that decision had to be.

I've had an adoptive uncle and my biological father die from brain tumors, my adoptive mom had brain mets (bilateral breast & lung CA), an adoptive aunt with lung CA, I've got AML (but subtype M-3....finishing up last of 20 months of chemo), adoptive grandfather with lung CA, bio-grandma with uterine CA, cousin's wife with Hodgkins, another cousin's wife with lymphoma, a child cousin with leukemia (died in the 50s).... (I only separate bio and adoptive d/t direct link to me).

It's so sad that so many people are so effected, and that care is so difficult to get for some. And for others who have access, sometimes there isn't anything to offer. And they grasp at whatever straws they can. There should be some sort of regulation re: false advertising. If it's a clinical trial- say so in the ad. Give the percentages of success w/clarification that every situation is unique.

I was very lucky. The hospital (regional cancer center) has a healing garden, mind-body folks (massage therapy, the mellow music channels, dietician who was in my room at least 3x/week during the initial 6 week stay), as well as really kind nurses and PCTs. My doc is a young, pleasant man who is doing things that his local peers are not familiar with (I got orificenic - the nurses had never dealt with it- and had to read up before I got there for the first of 50 doses). The stuff he's done was listed in a professional magazine he had in the waiting room that I picked up (not his publication; just a magazine with the same info)- it was a relief to see it in writing, even though he'd been spot-on everything he told me. I nearly didn't get the ONLY oral chemo for this type of leukemia....after the social worker did some looking for a better Medicare part D plan, that was taken care of....but if that hadn't happened, I'd probably be in a very different place. I've had to make some changes this week d/t side effects, and he knows I'd rather put up with the pain than risk not getting the best outcome.... he feels it's safe to take a 2-week break. So far he's been right. :) I guess I'll know in 5 years.

And there are so many out there... My mom did well. She didn't die of cancer. She ended up demented from brain radiation (nobody mentioned that - this was long before I'd gone to nursing school). I'm not sure if she knew about that chance or not. Her final 10 years were a downhill slide of mental and physical functioning. She was gone a long time before she stopped breathing.

There is so much that drives people to try snake oils. I think the only thing these places can offer those who aren't willing to hear that there is nothing left is a sense that they tried everything. I hate that people make money off of that- but I can understand the desire to find every last rock to look under. (I'm not saying I support the jerks.... :down: ). Nobody wants to feel like they've given up. Even if it's not them, but their body that can't keep going. The lack of control has to be horrendous.

I've had so many co-workers in the last couple of years be diagnosed with cancer. Being nurses, they understand the "that's it" intellectually....but emotionally, it's still hard for them- duh. I don't want to add to that by answering that my prognosis is good- not fun now, but I'm lucky. A couple of them, not so much.

:chair: Nothing meant to be offensive, but I never know :)

Purple_Scrubs, BSN, RN · Oct 28, 2011

I have no problem with these centers and think anyone with a serious diagnosis like cancer should follow their advice and seek a second opinion. My dad did when he was diagnosed with stage IV prostate cancer and was given 6 months at best. He went to a cancer center and was placed on a clinical trial that bought him another 7 years. Thank God he heard such a commercial and had the wisdom to seek that second opinion and not follow blindly what one physician told him.

Of course, not everyone will have those results, but if even one in one hundred gets to enjoy another 6 1/2 years with their family, is it not worth selling hope?

ledzepfan · Oct 28, 2011

I have no problem with these centers and think anyone with a serious diagnosis like cancer should follow their advice and seek a second opinion. My dad did when he was diagnosed with stage IV prostate cancer and was given 6 months at best. He went to a cancer center and was placed on a clinical trial that bought him another 7 years. Thank God he heard such a commercial and had the wisdom to seek that second opinion and not follow blindly what one physician told him.
Of course, not everyone will have those results, but if even one in one hundred gets to enjoy another 6 1/2 years with their family, is it not worth selling hope?

I understand your viewpoint, I really do. I'm not advocating that we burn down all these cancer centers and shoot

everyone who is diagnosed with ca because they're going to die anyway. If my reply sounded too cut and dry I

didn't mean it to.

And other replies are right too.....patients should have the choice to use these centers if they want to.

Sometimes a terminal diagnosis is just that.....a terminal diagnosis, whether it's made by one doctor or ten.

I just wish sometimes we could extend more energy into pallative care. ( maybe the profit isn't there?)

OCNRN63, RN · Oct 28, 2011

Would you be willing to expand on your opinion, OCN? I would love to get your view on this.

Not really. My prognosis is not that great, and it is painful for me to think or discuss the issue much. All I'll say is if there are some facilities that specialize in cancer tx. and help the patient feel that everything was done for them that could be done for them (if that's what they want) then good for them. It's unreasonable to expect everyone to be willing to just roll over and die just because they've been given a poor prognosis. People who don't work in medicine don't necessarily think the same way we do.

FWIW, hope, even in the face of very negative circumstances, is not necessarily a bad thing.

Now that's really all I have to say about that.

ledzepfan · Oct 28, 2011

Not really. My prognosis is not that great, and it is painful for me to think or discuss the issue much. All I'll say is if there are some facilities that specialize in cancer tx. and help the patient feel that everything was done for them that could be done for them (if that's what they want) then good for them. It's unreasonable to expect everyone to be willing to just roll over and die just because they've been given a poor prognosis. People who don't work in medicine don't necessarily think the same way we do.
FWIW, hope, even in the face of very negative circumstances, is not necessarily a bad thing.
Now that's really all I have to say about that.

I hope all goes well for you.

allnurses Guide · Oct 28, 2011

I have no problem with these centers and think anyone with a serious diagnosis like cancer should follow their advice and seek a second opinion. My dad did when he was diagnosed with stage IV prostate cancer and was given 6 months at best. He went to a cancer center and was placed on a clinical trial that bought him another 7 years. Thank God he heard such a commercial and had the wisdom to seek that second opinion and not follow blindly what one physician told him.
Of course, not everyone will have those results, but if even one in one hundred gets to enjoy another 6 1/2 years with their family, is it not worth selling hope?

Of course it is! Most definitely! As long as the center involved is being very up front about what kind of study it is (which phase), the patient is aware if the attempt is for cure or simply for information etc. There is nothing wrong with providing honest hope. I sincerely would not wish to sound like I am advocating anyone "just lay down and die" or telling someone everything is hopeless. Quite the contrary. I am advocating conscious living.

kids · Oct 28, 2011

Because they had to know before they put that word in there that whatever it is they have to offer most likely will not work. If it did, I will wager my last dollar that those coldhearted doctors at MDAnderson would be using it, talking about it, and advocating for it's approval. I don't think it's "the old metal bedpan" at all. Those doctors don't want their patients to die. They, as a group are tireless seeking out what may offer the thinnest whiff of hope. Many of them facilitate the enrollment of their patients in the clinical trials. They don't see themselves as competing with them.
Those clinical trials are offered only after every other method of treating a person's cancer has failed. If I had only 6 months to live, I may not want to spend it feeling as sick as a dog from side effects, spending my days with the endless bloodwork, scans, etc depriving me and my family the chance to optimize those last 6 months. Maybe they've been lving away from family and friends during treatment and just want to go home. Some people want to do that, and I respect it. Some people will do that for altruistic reasons but have a firm grasp of the statistics for clinical trials. But to knowingly offer false hope to vulnerable people is wrong, and profit gained from deception is wrong, too.
The ads are pitched to desperate families and patients with very advanced cancer. I suppose if there was one person who arrived at their door and put into remission by their treatments (not what they would receive anywhere else) - sure. I don't think the product they are selling "remission" should resemble other ads where at the end the narrator rattles off at warp speed: "noteveryonewillbenefitfromthistreatmentcheckwithyourowndoctorfirstresultsnottypical".

Based on *personal* experience I wouldn't hold MD Anderson up as some sort of cancer treatment Mecca, I think they are like any other facility participating in a lot of clinical trials, they pick and choose who to offer it to based on who they think is more likely to yield the results they want.

Clinical trials (if there is one) should be offered to every patient who qualifies for inclusion so that the patient can make a choice. Let the patient decide when their quality of life isn't enough to keep going.

I have family members who changed providers from regionally well known and highly regarded cancer programs in their region(s) to the 'nationally advertised' chain. Other than being given the choice to participate in clinical trials do you want to know what was really different about the 'national chain'? The nursing care was a heck of a lot better and more disciplines were actively involved and all for the same amount of money.

Yes, my family members all eventually died as expected, some sooner, some later (much later) than expected but all were allowed to choose when enough is enough. When it became obvious that there was nothing more that could be done for them the 'national chain' respected their choices and made sure they had good end of life care. Unlike the 'super awesome famous cancer center' who told my sister in law she was terminal, wrote a prescription for hospice and streeted her, 500 miles from home at 9pm on a Saturday night.

The 'national chain' isn't lying about their statistics, they aren't lying about their holistic approach, they don't promise a cure. Statistically offering any treatment for most cancers is 'false hope' so why do we bother treating it at all?

xtxrn, ASN, RN · Oct 29, 2011

Statistically offering any treatment for most cancers is 'false hope' so why do we bother treating it at all?

I had a guy come in w/metastatic melanoma (came to the ED 3 days in a row for headaches- yeah....3rd time, the CT showed multiple lesions...found lung, liver, bone, and something else; I forget). He had NO chance of recovery. But, he wanted as much time as he could get- and it was awful. He lived a month on high-dose morphine PCAs, and chemo for palliative reasons. I wouldn't want that- but he did :) It gave him what little time he had to say his goodbyes. It gave him the final word to delay it.

allnurses Guide · Oct 29, 2011

Based on *personal* experience I wouldn't hold MD Anderson up as some sort of cancer treatment Mecca, I think they are like any other facility participating in a lot of clinical trials, they pick and choose who to offer it to based on who they think is more likely to yield the results they want.
Clinical trials (if there is one) should be offered to every patient who qualifies for inclusion so that the patient can make a choice. Let the patient decide when their quality of life isn't enough to keep going.
I have family members who changed providers from regionally well known and highly regarded cancer programs in their region(s) to the 'nationally advertised' chain. Other than being given the choice to participate in clinical trials do you want to know what was really different about the 'national chain'? The nursing care was a heck of a lot better and more disciplines were actively involved and all for the same amount of money.
Yes, my family members all eventually died as expected, some sooner, some later (much later) than expected but all were allowed to choose when enough is enough. When it became obvious that there was nothing more that could be done for them the 'national chain' respected their choices and made sure they had good end of life care. Unlike the 'super awesome famous cancer center' who told my sister in law she was terminal, wrote a prescription for hospice and streeted her, 500 miles from home at 9pm on a Saturday night.
The 'national chain' isn't lying about their statistics, they aren't lying about their holistic approach, they don't promise a cure. Statistically offering any treatment for most cancers is 'false hope' so why do we bother treating it at all?

I only mentioned that particular facility because I was responding to Kyrshamark's post about the gigantic number of people on experimental treatments there. I would never presume to recommend what anyone do with their cancer and/or cancer treatment.

I have no personal experience with the large chain, either. I didn't accuse them of lying about their statistics. I thought the topic was their advertising methods.

The choices for treatment are a highly individual matter. I felt that way when my two siblings and mother have/had cancer and I feel that way with everyone else faced with a cancer diagnosis. If my words sounded like I was setting this up as a comparison situation that was not my intention at all.

Lifeofanurse · Oct 29, 2011

I see those ads all the time on TV.

I've been thinking about it alot lately..just the general ideas..cancer, death, how $ plays a part in whether you live or die....all those things.

I don't want to sell false hope. But I also have worked with a pt in clinical that I specifically asked how long he had...and dr said at most a month...but don't tell him.

WHAT?! So I'm sitting with his wife...they are both acknowledging he is dying..and she's saying that she still has so much to do...the will, he wants to make a final visit to his mother (who didn't know he was terminal)...all kinds of things...and I can't tell her to HURRY UP!!!

What I did do was ...with Dr's blessing...refer the social worker to her. Talk to them about Hospice care.

I did go out on a limb...told her to get the lawyer up there immediately so there will be no question as to his lucidity later.

She understood what I was saying without having it said out loud.

She hugged me and thanked me.

The dr should have been the one to say...you are terminal. You need to obtain closure...soon. they had never heard the words 'terminal'. No hope.

It's just crazy...if it were me.

I just don't know. As much as I want to live to see my children grow up, spend more time with my family...I just don't know what I would do.

I believe that this life...is only the first part of our existance. I believe it's what we do in this lifetime that determines the second. I know where I'm going when I'm done here. I don't want to go soon, but, I also don't want to trade quality of life just to keep breathing. I would never want to leave my family but I don't want to stay in agony or spend years fighting a losing battle..a long painful battle. I would just have to pray that God take me when the time is right...and that he give me the courage and strength to do what needs done before my time is up.

Would I feel different if it were my mom, my kid....yes I probably would. I would want everything possible done to save them. That is why advanced directives are so important. It takes the emotion out of it.

I should probably make sure my own will and AD are in order...just in case.