Nurses Being brought in from another country

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

But in the meantime, your countrymen have a need for more nurses, we have a need for jobs. everyone benefits.

Therein lies a great fallacy.

There is no "shortage" of nurses in America.

Let me repeat that:

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN AMERICA!

(all caps are intentional)

My countrymen could easily fill the "need for more nurses" here, with the thousands of nurses that are already citizens here, already educated here, have their families that are here and need financial support. There are more than enough nurses in the US, that are not working as nurses, to fill our need and export some.

Why are they not working as nurses? Some due to retirement, others due to major injury, periods of childrearing, etc. But the majority are not working for reasons that can easily be accomodated. Some have received injuries at work that their employers (who had the unsafe conditions that permitted the injury) refuse to accomodate. Nurses that repeatedly had their pay cut, or were mandated continually, nurses that got tired of fighting for the right to provide adequate safe care to their patients. Nurses that saw abusive practices, reported them after trying to get the facility to change, and then are permanently blackballed from the profession. Nurses that attempted to utilize their right to organize to stop abuse (nurse Gentry), only to have a facility post bogus charges against their license - keeping them from working for extensive periods of time (PS - the courts did find in favor of Gentry.....5or10 years later- but the amount of money she was awarded probably does not compensate for the financial damage that she sustained, nor the stress or damage to her career from the bogus charges).

We would not have a "shortage" of nurses, if the POBs would start improving working conditions. But rather than do so, they would rather import them and keep their power intact.

Sheri257 · Sep 10, 2006

I wouldn't have a problem with foreign nurses coming here, as long as they're not paid lower wages. But, the fact is, they are in at least some cases.

It's obvious from the posts in this forum that some foreign nurses don't have a clue about market wages because they don't live here. Some of them will take any job that will get them over here ... and that helps hospitals keep wages low.

In my area ... we've got a hospital located 45 minutes away that's trying to recruit new grads at only $23 an hour. It's absolutely ridiculous because it's very expensive to live and/or commute there.

It's even more ridiculous because a hospital closer to home where the cost of living is cheaper and there's no commuting costs, has just raised their new grad pay to $26 an hour (thanks to a new union contract). By next year, new grads will be making $28 an hour. And we're living in the lower paying area of the region.

How does a hospital that's located in the more expensive, usually much higher paying area actually pay lower wages than anybody else in the entire region? They hire foreign nurses ... because nobody in their right mind who lives here is going to work for those lower wages. And they can pay foreign nurses less because the federal government says $23 an hour is "market" wages in the region ... even when it's actually far below market

When foreign nurses come here, there's got to be a mechanism in place to make sure they get paid real market wages. Because, otherwise ... this hurts everybody ... both American and foreign nurses.

:typing

Sheri257 · Sep 10, 2006

THERE IS NO SHORTAGE OF NURSES IN AMERICA!
(all caps are intentional)
We would not have a "shortage" of nurses, if the POBs would start improving working conditions. But rather than do so, they would rather import them and keep their power intact.

This is probably true. About 17 percent of licensed RN's nationwide ... about 500,000 ... aren't working.

But, in California where we have a ratio law (i.e. improved working conditions) only 6 percent of RN's aren't working.

If you cut the non-working RN's nationwide down to six percent like in California with better working conditions ... you'd probably have about 330,000 more RN's in the workforce nationwide ... and not much of a shortage.

But, ratios cost money ... and so does higher American nursing wages. Foreign nurses are one way to minimize those costs.

:typing

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

I actually was reviewing traveler positions for the Winter. One place in Florida (facility that is known for importing nurses) had the traveler pay down to $22/hr.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

We are both writing in English but somehow my words are being misread.

I think I understood what you were saying. This nation was founded by immigrants and four our entire history people have come here from many nations. That tradition continues today. Filipino nurses are no more different that the Europenes in the late 1800's looking for a better life, who were no different than the ones from the 1600's.

I also agree with those who say that America is not an immigrant nation. We are not.

(Also, our relationship with the Philippines goes way back as well, when we "received" the Philippines from Spain after winning the Spanish American War. Many Americans died defending the Philippines in WWII, and many Filipinos died side by side with Americans. That's way off topic and really not relavent to the current discussion, but since I'm in a historical mood.....)

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

I actually was reviewing traveler positions for the Winter. One place in Florida (facility that is known for importing nurses) had the traveler pay down to $22/hr.

With free housing I trust? That is low, but close to the going rate here 20something with free housing.

caroladybelle, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

With free housing I trust? That is low, but close to the going rate here 20something with free housing.

I didn't ask. W/my creds and specialty, even in Florida, I get paid better than that. I already have possibilities at one of my regular assignments (chain w/several facilities that I have worked at - for decent pay)

Of course it was a Forprofit facility, but it is not even in a "good" area of Florida to work. It is not close to a beach, or even many lakes. And it definitely has poor ratios. There really isn't even "sunshine" pay going for them.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

I didn't ask. W/my creds and specialty, even in Florida, I get paid better than that. I already have possibilities at one of my regular assignments (chain w/several facilities that I have worked at - for decent pay)
Of course it was a Forprofit facility, but it is not even in a "good" area of Florida to work. It is not close to a beach, or even many lakes. And it definitely has poor ratios. There really isn't even "sunshine" pay going for them.

I agree. I'd would have hung up immediately laughing at the absurdity. Heck I make more than that without traveling.

madwife2002, BSN, RN · Sep 10, 2006

Oncogene,
I agree with what Timothy said. What troubles me is the attitude of expecting and/or perceiving it to be one's right to immigrate to any particular country. (Not saying you said this, just my thoughts in general.) There is no such right. Boundaries and borders exist for many reasons.
For example, I would like to someday immigrate to Canada to be near some of my Canadian relatives and for other reasons. Since I am not a Canadian citizen, I view the opportunity to become a Canadian citizen as a gift which is entirely up to the Canadian government. They owe me nothing. If I am permitted to become a Canadian citizen - I will say thank you for the opportunity given to me by Canada. I would not feel entitled to citizenship or wax philosophical about all of us being immigrants at one time or another.

I cannot aggree more with what you say. I am from the UK and I now live here in the US I feel that I have been priviledged to be allow the opportunitly to come to live and work in the USA. I feel that borders have to be controlled or there would be a huge problem if a free for all were allowed.

We have a huge problem in the UK with asylum seekers arriving daily so much so in 5 years the accounted population from war torn countries and illegal immigration actually increased from 8% to 11% of the population. If you imagine the whole of the UK can fit inside Texas 5 times or more. So a tiny country when compared, yet the population of the UK in over 60 million. The problem of this kind of immigration is the financial cost to the country and the health care system, and it is being seen daily in the NHS by the cut backs because we can no longer afford to keep it running as it was.

So every nation has to control immigration, remember 3/4 of the worlds countries dont let the British and Americans just go to their countries and run riot in them do they! We have to have visa's and be interogated as to why we are visiting, given a stamp as to how long we are there for and if we leave later than said almost arrested at the airport.

How many British and Americans are accused of spying.

If this was a free world why does this happen, why do we have to obey the laws and religions of other countries but that doesnt happen in ours.

SmilingBluEyes · Sep 10, 2006

I agree; the key is CONTROLLED immigration.

KTYRN · Sep 10, 2006

Wow, I guess I really opened a can of worms with this topic. I respect everybody's point of view and I appreciate the feedback. As for the nurses from India coming here, I will definitely keep everyone posted on how it goes. As for the pay rate of new grads only getting $22/hr. that's great! In our area they only get $18., that's with a union. I think I'm ready to move, LOL. I think I live in the lowest paying area of the U.S.

ortess1971 · Sep 10, 2006

My grandparents on my mom's side came here in 1950. Back then, you had to have a sponsor(usually through the local church) who would be responsible for you if you failed to find a job in a timely fashion. That's right, you were expected to work when you came here, my grandfather didn't speak english at first but he got a job in a factory during the day and my grandmother got one at night. America may have an immigration history and it is something to be proud of, but we have to control the illegal immigration that is happening. I also believe that we should take care of our own first-meaning that we should fix the working conditions for our nurses and get our students of off these ridiculous waiting lists. One way to do that, IMHO, is to let nurses who have a bachelor's degree teach nursing. What we have now in many cases are nurses who may have their Master's or PHd, but have not been at the bedside in years. Not too many people want to teach nursing after going through the rigors of a masters program, because they pay them terribly. Hate to sound paranoid but sometimes I think that this drive to bring nurses in from overseas is a way towards paying us less.