No Nursing Shortage At The Present Time - page 8
by TheCommuter 69,906 Views | 340 Comments Senior Moderator
I am assured that some of you are reading this and saying to yourselves, "Duh! This topic is old hat. We already know there's a glut of nurses in many parts of the country, so why are you writing about this?" Here is my reason... Read More
- 5Jul 5, '12 by Patti_RNSmartnurse brings up a good point about wages. While there may be some truth to the theory that imported nurses are driving wages downward, I believe this is more attributed to the basic economic concept of supply and demand. Nursing schools are churning out graduates at record rates, new jobs are not being created at the same rate, nor is attrition creating vacancies to satisfy the number of job applicants. With more applicants competing for fewer positions, the obvious effect is downward pressure on wages. Before someone jumps in with a conspiracy theory, let me address that. No, hospitals, LTC facilities, and other employers, are not 'in cahoots' with nursing schools and colleges who are pumping out all these new nurses. Nursing schools have their own agenda which is based on another simple economic principle of economy of scale. Businesses that become larger become more profitable, so these schools (which are businesses) have tremendous incentive to expand their student rolls. While employers don't actively collude with these schools, they do benefit from the additional supply of nurses, so may promote the fallacy of a 'nursing shortage'.
- 8Jul 5, '12 by lovedijahI don't mean to be evil, but it seems like some people want nursing schools to put a big fat blinking sign outside the door that says, "Warning. You may pay us 50,000 for this education and find yourself without a job. Proceed with caution". :redlight: Then you will probably have people who say, "Oh I came in the back door. I didn't see the sign. This is so unfair". Nurses, it's OK to use critical thinking when not in uniform.
There is a large group of unemployed nurses who aren't willing to make the sacrifices to find a job. The same way you sacrificed in nursing school is the same way you need to sacrifice to find a job. Sacrifice is apart of life. A BSN doesn't make you immune to this. Nor does any other advanced degree. If you had to relocate to even get into nursing school, why is it such a shock you may have to relocate to find a job? Clearly this is a competitive game. I realize people have children and spouses, preferences, obligations, whatever, whatever, whatever. But it is what it is.
If I wasn't a morning person, I wouldn't get an education degree. If I wasn't willing to relocate or take a job at a place I didn't "like"- I would think long and hard about nursing school. Why are you taking out 50g's in loans if you are limiting yourself to only working at icu units within an hour from you.
Here.. let me look at my crystal ball and tell you your chance of finding a job. 10%. It's unfortunate. It's tough. But if you're looking for someone to knock on your door and offer you a job following all your stipulations and requirements, may I suggest you sell Avon? Start your own business if you want to make the rules.
- 6Jul 5, '12 by netglowQuote from lovedijahYou know what, I think the large majority of unemployed nurses understand all of this already... if they are newly graduated they learn this quickly. I think there could be a minority who have someone else paying the bills - your words might apply to these people, but most have some serious financial responsibilities after their nursing education and are acutely aware of sacrifice. :icon_rollThere is a large group of unemployed nurses who aren't willing to make the sacrifices to find a job. The same way you sacrificed in nursing school is the same way you need to sacrifice to find a job. Sacrifice is apart of life. A BSN doesn't make you immune to this. Nor does any other advanced degree. If you had to relocate to even get into nursing school, why is it such a shock you may have to relocate to find a job? Clearly this is a competitive game. I realize people have children and spouses, preferences, obligations, whatever, whatever, whatever. But it is what it is.
- 4Quote from Patti_RNExactly. In a nutshell, this is called wage deflation, where the nursing pay rates actually remain stagnant or decrease even though the cost of living is increasing. Since nurses have become a dime a dozen during these past few years, companies can get away with paying less.With more applicants competing for fewer positions, the obvious effect is downward pressure on wages.
- 7Jul 5, '12 by HM-8404Quote from TheCommuterThis is a part of the reason the trades pay so well now. Fewer people willing to be become plumbers, electricians, etc and the pay keeps rising, when people flood a certain job market such as nursing or computer programming the pay falls, or does not keep up with inflation.Exactly. In a nutshell, this is called wage deflation, where the nursing pay rates actually remain stagnant or decrease even though the cost of living is increasing. Since nurses have become a dime a dozen during these past few years, companies can get away with paying less.
- 0Jul 5, '12 by elprupQuote from billyboblewisBut without experience, it is getting hard to stay positive.Anyone who has lost their job knows that there is no shortage. However with many dark spots on my record I have always succeeded in getting a job after a month or so because I did not give up and have often run into people who remembered me from the past and knew that I could get the job done. In other words until I actually had a job I kept applying and going for interviews. Every person in the world is going to clik with one person or another..you just have to stay positive.
- 4Jul 5, '12 by netglowQuote from HM-8404This is a part of the reason the trades pay so well now. Fewer people willing to be become plumbers, electricians, etc and the pay keeps rising, when people flood a certain job market such as nursing or computer programming the pay falls, or does not keep up with inflation.
Yes and the really skilled trades there is huge demand. The US is lacking in truly skilled trades people. In the Chicago area, we have been flooded as of the last few years with Polish/Russian immigrants.
The entire family comes, lots are trades people. They stay within their own cultural network and when I shop I see them dropping huge cash on luxe items (it absolutely amazes me in this economy). They often pay in cash. There are more and more ads for healthcare positions requiring fluent Polish/Russian - not because the patients don't speak English (they all do fluently), it's because they keep with their own community. Polish physicians are often able to make some big bucks and remain independent of the big hospital networks due to their exclusive marketability.
When I worked for a private practice a few years back, often payment of thousands was in cash from these folks. Yup the IRS never sees a penny from some I suspect. Funny thing though, the doc I worked for had Polish parents, but he was as American as they come himself - didn't speak a word of Polish. We laughed all the time at how we got so much biz just because of his last name.
- 10Quote from netglowI'm only speculating, but here is why I think the US is lacking in people who know who to perform the skilled trades.Yes and the really skilled trades there is huge demand. The US is lacking in truly skilled trades people.
1. School officials, politicians, and some parents have discouraged teenagers and young adults from doing 'manual labor.' An entire generation of young adults has been encouraged to attend college or universities when some of them are not college material. However, what can you realistically do with a BA degree in theater arts, literature, philosophy, etc.?
2. As recently as a generation ago, students were tracked into educational pathways based on their test scores and career aspirations. High schools once had vocational paths where students who became disengaged with regular courses could train to become welders, chefs, drafters, auto mechanics, computer office clerks, cosmetologists, manicurists, nursing assistants, and even LPNs. Vocational tracks have mostly disappeared from high schools, and these disengaged students are now forced to sit in college-prep high school courses.
3. An unspoken stigma exists regarding factory work, plumbing, mechanical and electrical work, and any work done with the hands. Many of today's unemployed college graduates would not be caught dead with a hammer or wrench in their hands. However, this type of work builds character, and not everyone is capable of doing it.
- 4Jul 5, '12 by StephalumpMy peers and I who went directly into full-time college after high school graduated right in time for the economy to crash. We're full of debt and degrees in Psychology, English, Theatre, and French. At one time just HAVING a degree was enough to get some sort of job, regardless of your major Now...not so much.
Our school district has a thriving vocational program on its own campus. You can get your cosmetology license, work with airlines, early education centers, you can become a mechanic or welder, or become a certified medical assistant. But who would encourage a good student to take these paths? Looking back, I wish someone would've directed me there. Odds are, it would've been a temporary path, but I would've had a skill/verification to work with while I navigated my way to figuring out who I was and what I wanted, instead of wasting my mother's money studying psychology, theatre, and philosophy.
My husband started working as a skilled tradesman and was making 6 figures when he was 20 years old, and he only has his GED.
I already know I'll be encouraging my children in a different way as they get older. I'm not against education, even just for personal enrichment, but when my husband was laid off in 2009 and we didn't have a roof over our heads, my random education did us no good. When we finally recovered financially, it wasn't because of my random education. It was because of his skills. Had I even had an MA certification, it could've done me far more good.
- 6Quote from StephalumpI was a good high school student who graduated with a 3.5 GPA in a college prep track with a couple of honors/AP courses. Although I had been accepted to three regional state universities, my parents refused to cosign any student loans or provide any financial information for the FAFSA. My parents have no education beyond high school and saw no value in me attending university.But who would encourage a good student to take these paths? Looking back, I wish someone would've directed me there.
I ended up not attending college immediately after high school. Instead, I worked a string of dead-end retail jobs and a couple of direct care staff positions for two years. At age 20, I was hired at a paper factory and toiled there for three years while saving almost every penny. At age 23, I took the plunge and quit the factory job to attend a 12-month LVN program full time. After a few years of working as an LVN I earned my RN license.
I'm now 31 years old, and while I am not rich, I am financially comfortable. I have minimal student loan debt, two older vehicles that I own outright, a modest house with a tiny mortgage of less than $400 per month, and plenty of money left over after the bills are paid.
For the longest time I resented my parents for refusing to help me with my goal of attending the university. However, everything happens for a reason, and it was a blessing in disguise because I am not saddled with intractable student loan debt and a lite humanities degree.