Never placed an IV!!!!!

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 22, 2012

.......
I take extreme offence to your scandalous statement about "a deficiency in human decency" and hope the guides remove your comment as it is beyond insulting and is extremely hostile.

And once more we disagree.

And I take offense to what appears to me to be a disregard of other's sensibilities. However, I am not going to call your statements "scandalous", even if they are disagreeable to me. Neither would I stomp and call for removal of what I have found to be very unsavory positions on the subject.

You do like to refer to opposing opinions as hostile, I notice. None of my statements have been in the least bit hostile. I have been VERY insulted by you before, mentioned it, and your response was that you "call it as you see it". Well, so be it, I've followed your lead.

sapphire18 · Jun 22, 2012

Off topic, but I, too, believe that once we die we are no longer in our bodies; have no use for them; they are shells.

HOWEVER, that does NOT mean that they become public property once the person dies. Not only is it disrespectful, but not everyone thinks of their body after death as an empty shell. We cannot assume others' beliefs.

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming...

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2012

ah, but you are willing to state that it was wrong then and is wrong now, which puts you a considerable step ahead of those who not only don't recognize that is was wrong, but continue to defend the practice as not being unacceptable even today.
sadly, some don't realize what some of us would call a deficiency in human decency. but i am glad that you obviously do!

there is no deficiency in human decency here....it was how it was done years ago. patient in the indigent wards were utilized for experimentation of the student nurses....in diploma programs they were available all the time as the clinical instruction was stellar.

experimentation on the cadavers continues but not because they are indigent......many individuals donate their bodies to science, which by the way does cost money. the indigent are, however, still used for medical science instead of hospitals bearing the expense of a burial.

those who die indigent, homeless or away from friends and family are often left unclaimed in hospital morgues. since the economic crisis in 2009 and lingering unemployment, instances of unclaimed corpses have even included individuals whose family and friends cannot afford the cost of burial. although procedures for dealing with unclaimed corpses differ from state-to-state, there are some standard ways that states deal with unclaimed corpses

read more: what happens if you die & no one claims your body?

search for family
when a death by homicide, accident, natural death or other means occurs without the presence of a person to identify or claim the deceased individual, authorities search for next of kin based on any identifying materials or characteristics. in some states, such as oregon, authorities are made to search for next of kin for at least 10 days before disposing of the body. in some cases, next of kin are readily available but not able to claim the body or take responsibility for the economic aspect of burial.

medical schools and scientific use
each state demands that any unclaimed bodies need to be first offered to medical schools and other organizations that uses human remains for scientific study. many medical schools have a shortage of cadavers for student study, so the use of unclaimed bodies is very common. body farms, used by both law enforcement officials and medical school students, are areas in which human bodies are left untreated by chemicals so that students and officials can study the human body at various states of decomposition. this knowledge can help federal officials and forensic scientists to solve homicides.
read more: what happens if you die & no one claims your body? | ehow.com what happens if you die & no one claims your body? | ehow.com

the indigent being donated to science does occur, most states require this, the state of oregon.......

in oregon, the term "demonstrator of anatomy" is used in a slightly different context. it is a position outlined in oregon state statute, ors 97.170 which specifies that the ohsu board of directors shall appoint the demonstrator of anatomy from the university's staff. the statute also directs funeral service practitioners to make available to the demonstrator of anatomy the bodies of unclaimed indigents for the purpose of medical instruction or the advancement of medical science. further, the bodies of children who die under the guardianship of the state of oregon may also be made available to the demonstrator of anatomy.
demonstrator of anatomy responsibilities are outlined in ors 97.170, and require the regulation of all bodies received via the donation process. this includes receipt, preparation, distribution, tracking and cremation of both indigent and donor bodies and the return of the cremains (cremated remains) to the next of kin. the demonstrator of anatomy also ensures appropriate use of cadaveric material provided by the body donation program to other programs.
http://www.ohsu.edu/xd/education/schools/school-of-medicine/bodydonation/demonstrator.cfm

so, regardless how this offends the sensibilities....it occurs every day for the advancement of science and treatment of disease.

as per the terms of service. an promotes the idea of lively debate. this means you are free to disagree with anyone on any type of subject matter as long as your criticism is constructive and polite.

rudeness or name calling is divisive, rude, and derails the thread.

our first priority is to the members that have come here because of the flame-free atmosphere we provide. there is a zero-tolerance policy here against personal attacks. we will not tolerate anyone insulting other's opinion nor name calling.

this thread started as a thread about learning how to start iv's and not about the use of cadavers for medicine or research.

let's please stay focused on the subject at hand

PrimaFacie · Jun 22, 2012

Esme, whew, thank you, because I was starting to feel like some in this conversation thought I invented the practice, and was being blamed for it.

I do have a few last thoughts on this, but I'll keep them to myself and hope that the topic can go back to the original discussion.

Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2012

It's a great discussoin but it was getting warm. Sometimes it's best to step back away from the keyboard slowly.

A skill I practice at everyday.....

RNsRWe, ASN, RN · Jun 22, 2012

Clearly it's time for more than one to take steps back.

I believe I'm done here, as I've addressed the topic and at this point am aggravated by the sideline one. Moving on.

jennilynn · Jun 22, 2012

In our IV section of nursing school, we were each given a start kit and needle that we had to reuse on the fake arm just to get a feel for sticking someone. When we were comfortable with that we each got another start kit and needle to practice on one another.

I did my practicum in an outpatient infusion clinic so got plenty of practice there, on horrible veins!

The I started working at a hospital with an IV team and got out of practice, which was a big mistake.

Now I work at a small hospital where we start IV's. I told my charge that I'd like to start as many as possible. I was nervous last night with her watching me, but got a hard stick on the first try.

I just need to practice! Practice! Practice!

BacktotheBeach, ADN, BSN, RN · Jun 22, 2012

new associates grad here....We got to practice in the lab on the dummy arm, at that point we were checked off to start IV's in clinical. I got the chance immediately and it went great. Wouldn't you know the patient's daughter was there watching and when I was done, she told me she's a nurse!! Glad I did not know that before. She said I did a fine job!

Anyway, my program also sent us to an outpatient surgery center where we started all the IV's for the day's surgerys so we got a lot of sticks. It was a great experience. This is a skill I am glad I have.

minnymi · Jun 22, 2012

In our IV section of nursing school, we were each given a start kit and needle that we had to reuse on the fake arm just to get a feel for sticking someone.

The school I attended used to have the students re-use needles to practice....until they noticed that when the students got into the clinical setting they were recapping needles. It had become a habit because they did it so much in the lab.

So, they decided to eat the cost of disposing of needles for practice. Then, the students got into the habit of activating the safety and disposing of them as they should in "real life."

MochaRN424, ASN · Aug 3, 2012

Here I thought I was the only one who didn't have this experience. I have almost two years of nursing (23 months) expereince and I just had my 3rd child (not planned at all). So I have been off the floor for 2 years now. My last position MIU promised that I could learn IV starts and blood draws without any problems but can I tell you that it never happened....and this was a teaching university in VA.

Sure anyone can draw off an arm they have with the IV bag filled with kool-aid with previous needle marks and excellent veins. I wanted to be the best for my patients and it was uncomfortable for me trying to draw blood when I had only gotten to draw literally a couple of times. I asked if I could come in on "my time" which means they would NOT have to pay me...still no success. I too came from a hospital where there was an IV team who did everything. I hope that you will get the experience you are looking for because I did not.

I guess hospitals don't appreciate someone who has the desire to learn so they can be the best they can be. But had I made a serious mistake or caused harm then they would have been glad to have my license taken away. I don't understand the nursing profession and why since the age of 5 I wanted to be a nurse in the first place....

wannabecnl · Oct 23, 2012

My nursing program did not teach us to start IVs. We did many other skills in the sim lab, including suctioning, placing and removing Foleys, placing and using NG tubes, FSBS, etc. I used some of these in clinicals and have done some (not all) on the job. I work in the PACU now, and it is extremely rare that we start IVs. I asked about going to pre-op to learn, and my preceptor pointed out that anesthesia staff start most of the IVs in pre-op. Her advice was to hang with the IV team for a day, but also said that I would not have to start many (and as many have mentioned here, if you don't use a skill, you tend to lose it).

Also, I tried to avoid weighing in on the side discussion of the poor training of us new grads, but I just have to say one thing. Learning to put in an IV is nothing like learning pharmacology. Implying that not teaching IV starts is tantamount to not teaching pharmacology is ludicrous. I never learned to administer drugs through a PICC line until my first job, and after I had 2 patients with PICCs one day, each on multiple IV meds, I had it down. The semesters of learning pathophysiology and pharmacology are how I knew that the meds were safe and appropriate, the doses made sense, and I could explain the medications to the patients when they inevitably asked me questions. If a junkie can learn to hit a vein, I can probably pick it up when I need to.

wannabecnl · Oct 23, 2012

Sorry, can't edit my post but realized something wasn't clear in the last paragraph. Starting an IV is not the same as giving drugs through a PICC (despite my over-bookish but allegedly impractical new grad education, I do know that much! ). I was just using the PICC scenario as an example of something I never saw once in nursing school (others had patients with PICCs and learned to do them in clinicals) but was able to pick up once I was working. There would not be time to learn pharmacology and pathophysiology at the bedside, so given a choice with limited time and resources, I think my school and many others have chosen wisely.