Managers can I change your opinion of them?

I read threads about managers and how ineffective they are I would like to see if I can change readers minds about how their manager is performing and what barriers there may be. Nurses Announcements Archive Article

It is a very lonely world out there for managers. I became a manager of a dialysis facility in august 2010.

I was promoted from within, not the best way to start out in your new role! why-because everybody has certain expectations of you which you cannot live up to. You start out with the best possible rationale which quickly turns into realization that in the big bad world of management that 'behind the scenes' is not as it seems when trying to look in.

Everything and I mean everything works very slowly, to get even the simplest task takes for ever to implement. To get a huge project under way takes forever and ever amen

An example of this is when you know an employee is not performing at their job description you cannot just fire them! (this is not what i want to do just for the record this is just an example-and not a very good one!)

No matter what we read on here 'normally' and if you work for a company who is actually cares about their employees there are huge hoops to jump through to fire somebody.

In my company you have to have a paper trail it starts with

  • a first negative anecdotal
  • a second negative anecdotal
  • a step one corrective action
  • a step two corrective action
  • a step three corrective action
  • suspension pending investigation
  • termination

If you don't have all your ducks in a row then you cannot ... I repeat, cannot fire/discipline an employee.

You can however depending on the severity of the issue progress the employee through the steps faster and if a danger to a pt then jump to suspension pending investigation.

This whole process can take 6 months which is a long time when there are severe concerns about an employee. Everything has to go through human resources and approved once you get into the step actions. HR will advise how to proceed and will consult with lawyers.

Why you ask-this is to protect the company from litigation and also as I learned recently help to reduce the unemployment payouts!

Meanwhile the bad behavior continues and the other staff think that an unproductive, mean, non-compliant work colleague is getting away with behaving badly or has poor performance! they think if he/she can do it then so can I.

They start to lose faith in you as a manager because 'there is no point in going to see her she does nothing'. When in reality you are working your butt off to try and improve bad situations.

It takes 100's of hours sometimes to get one piece of work completed because of the red tape and the hoops.

You cannot tell the rest of the staff what you are doing as this would not be fair, so you have to smile and hope they will one day have the results needed.

When I first became a manager I would stress every night that i had not completed my work. s an RN I hardly ever left work for somebody to complete I went home in the evening satisfied I had done what was expected! now I left piles of work half completed and something to look forward to when i got back in the next day. Now 8 months on I no longer have nightmares about uncompleted work, it is all part of the job description.

My day is never boring and never predictable, I do however miss the patients because I really never have any time to work on the floor I know my skills are going rusty I know I could not perform as a nurse in the same level I did before because I am now a paper pusher, a therapist, a sounding board, I am a boss, but am bossed from a higher level, a financial expert, a scheduler, a kindergarten teacher, a referee, a swing door, a borrower, a lender, a sponge, an executioner and a friend when somebody needs a shoulder.

I read threads on managers and I have to ask am I like that? do i do that? And what is the bigger picture?

It is such a huge topic and I would like to deal with each role individually.

Nothing and I mean nothing is as you see it! A poor performance which has a impact on a team may not be just that the staff member is trying to be troublesome or nasty or not able to complete a task!

We all have the problem that we tell an 'ugly story" about somebody else to justify why they are behaving in such a way, and we already have that story in our heads, if we just asked or discussed we may find out the true picture and it will probably be different that what we had told ourselves.

Many times I have staff telling me a story about another staff member sometimes I just listen and other times I ask the other person to come see me in the 'dungeon'-because if you pop in my office, it is ok but if I ask you to come into the office and see me, then I become the executioner immediately!

When you ask what is going on and if everything is ok, then a quite different story emerges.

A huge lesson I learned early on as a manager was to hear all sides of the story and not act before you have considered both! another huge lesson I have learned is, if an employee is having an issue with another employee I ask questions like, "What do you think the solution is?"

I am encouraging the staff to come to me with solutions not just problems. After all, nobody woke up and made me god! I don't know everything and I don't have all the answers I am just a person like you!


Added 4/14/2011

I would like to add when starting this blog article I was trying to reassure people that you cannot just get fired in good companies-but it does look like I am trigger happy when I re-read! So I apologise that was not my intention.

However, I did need to correct some very bad behaviour which needed immediate action very soon into my job and that how I know how hard it is to make sure things are dealt with fairly and correctly.

Wow Yosemite, you summed it up perfectly. I wanted to go into management to make things better. That was my sole reason. I thought I could make a difference. I found out 1. You can actually do very little to change the bad things. 2. Management is cutthroat and you have to have a strong sense of self to cope. 3. You are far safer in the trenches than you are in management.

Sadly, I have this great education and am searching for something rewarding to use it on. I have been a staff nurse for so long that it bores me, but I am not really ready to tackle the tremendous stress of management once again. I want to do QI, but there are no opportunities in the area. So I am drifting, working as casual QI nurse and a school nurse. Now with the budget cuts they want to lay off all the current school nurses and hire LPNS. I can't win.

Specializes in ER.

Hi-

wanted to tell you that you remind me to think more kindly of my own manager. She is new to this role and I often grow weary of her because...

1. I am tired of only seeing her when she wants to "educate" me on a missed entry on a chart or remind of one of 80 trillion recent changes to unit policies that I forgot to implement on behalf of one of our patients on the first day that the change took effect on the unit.

2. I am tired of watching her schmooze the experienced RNs and then offer only a polite hello in my direction. Does she not realize that I will get what I need in the way of experience and leave?

3. I am tired of being told to do differently without being allowed any input. Just because I am less experienced than others does not mean that I have nothing to offer. I have held dozens of jobs some of which were management. (Disclaimer for those about to flame...I have been recently complemented for my willingness to enthusiastically implement some new unit processes.) I work here too.

4. I am weary of her stumbly and occasionally judgmental and aggressive attitude. She has NOT heard all of the story (as another poster has said)

5. Her door is always closed. ;-(

6. She has clearly made friends with too many people on the unit.

7. She isn't firing the lazy fast enough. In fact, she seems to have bought into their lies. ;-(

but I know she wants to do it right so badly so I will pray for her tonight.

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
Hi-

wanted to tell you that you remind me to think more kindly of my own manager. She is new to this role and I often grow weary of her because...

1. I am tired of only seeing her when she wants to "educate" me on a missed entry on a chart or remind of one of 80 trillion recent changes to unit policies that I forgot to implement on behalf of one of our patients on the first day that the change took effect on the unit.

2. I am tired of watching her schmooze the experienced RNs and then offer only a polite hello in my direction. Does she not realize that I will get what I need in the way of experience and leave?

3. I am tired of being told to do differently without being allowed any input. Just because I am less experienced than others does not mean that I have nothing to offer. I have held dozens of jobs some of which were management. (Disclaimer for those about to flame...I have been recently complemented for my willingness to enthusiastically implement some new unit processes.) I work here too.

4. I am weary of her stumbly and occasionally judgmental and aggressive attitude. She has NOT heard all of the story (as another poster has said)

5. Her door is always closed. ;-(

6. She has clearly made friends with too many people on the unit.

7. She isn't firing the lazy fast enough. In fact, she seems to have bought into their lies. ;-(

but I know she wants to do it right so badly so I will pray for her tonight.

Unreal I will pray for you! I know what it is like to work with awful managers but most tend to be better than what you are experiencing.

Friends well I like everybody I work with to be truthful. I do however have the ability to ditatch myself from that when I sit down and talk with any member of staff. I am not saying that is easy I have to prepare myself mentally because I am natrually a friendly individual.

I honestly hope nobody thinks I have friends at work or i prefer one to the other. I will ask them at the next staff meeting. We are working towards a very open and honest environment so I know they will tell me LOL

Specializes in Med/Surg.
cdsga, I like what you have to say, except nurse managers are not the top of the pecking order, very much in the lower middle in most institutions with several layers over them. And I for one don't want a manager to "get in the trenches" with me I want my manager doing her (or his) job, which they are all paid for a job with FULL TIME duties too. Sure it's nice for managers to spend alot of time "in the trenches", but is anyone helping your manager with their duties? I have worked with managers who are still at work after day shift has gone home. I don't think their directors pick up some of their chores. .. we are all nurses; I know my manager hasn't forgot "what it's like out there" just because she doesn't have a patient assignment. I'd rather have my patients and a committed manager with high standards and expectations who does their job and runs our unit smoothly so I can do my job. .. which can't be done if they are out there helping "in the trenches" every time it gets busy. Every one has a job to do, and in our hospital, I think we have good , hard-working managers who support the staff (the ones who deserve support),and put in long hours, are on call 24/7, hold staff accountable for their performance and quality, arrange education classes and inservices, counsel staff and patients, round on patients, investigate and report findings on incident reports, answer to administration for staff's non-compliance, negotiate and communicate nursing and patient concerns with other departments and services, appease and explain incidents to doctors and convince them they can trust our nursing staff when mistakes happen (our docs have anxiety about their patient's safety and care when things go wrong), serve on hospital wide committees to develop guidelines, develop action plans for administration when outcomes are not at acceptable levels and that's just the stuff that I know about that my manager does. ANd chase down the lazy staff who don't want to get BLS and PPD done on time! No thank you! sounds like alot of you either work with crappy managers or don't have a clue about what yours really do. I don't like everything that happens where I work but I respect my manager who works just as hard, if not harder, than the rest of us and it seems pretty thankless to me.

Definitely an undercover nurse manager!

Specializes in Women's Health, currently mother/infant,.

This entire thread has been a real eye-opener. It has helped me take a step back and look at my own unfair attitude. As a staff nurse I don't know all the manager's responsibilities, and I do get impatient with lack of follow through on issues that have been discussed. I need to remind my self that my manager usually does have our best interest at heart. The last year has been filled with a mountain of petty issues and I have finally come to the decision that I will work with my manager to try to make ours the best unit possible.

Complaining and grumbling gets us nowhere. If I can not be part of the solution it will be time to look elsewhere. Before I decide to leave, I will make sure that I have given my personal best effort. Good luck to all the managers! May you all give it your personal best also.

Specializes in Geriatrics.

Been an LPN for 6 years, had some great Managers that we all would bend over backwards for. Had a few who chewed me up & spit me out like old gum. I worked management for 12 years in the factories before I decided to go into Nursing. I would/have never treated any of my employees the way I have been treated/the way I saw others treated. I understand there are others above you, that you cannot change everything quickly. But, taking out frustrations on over-worked Nurses, telling them that they need better time management skills as you dump more and higher acuity patients on them along with additional paperwork, while making them work short staffed, and without the supplies or support they need and this whole Customer Service BS line is NOT going to endear you in my heart nor that of my co-workers. You will change my mind when you fight to make our workplaces safer for us and our patients.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.

Many years in nursing, and I have seen the good, the bad and the really ugly managers. Unfortunately the good seem to be few and far between. I understand it is an often thankless job, I understand change is slow and I understand there is no way you can make everybody happy. I don't understand why every Monday-Friday [except of course any holiday] it takes 6 nurse's in management positions to do your job while there are are only 4 staff nurses in the building.

Specializes in RN, BSN, CHDN.
Many years in nursing, and I have seen the good, the bad and the really ugly managers. Unfortunately the good seem to be few and far between. I understand it is an often thankless job, I understand change is slow and I understand there is no way you can make everybody happy. I don't understand why every Monday-Friday [except of course any holiday] it takes 6 nurse's in management positions to do your job while there are are only 4 staff nurses in the building.

What do you mean, when you say 6 nurses in management positions I dont understand?

I work all the holidays! in my company it is not expected that you take mondays off or friday (although I am sure a lot of managers do) Nobody works Xmas Day, New Years Day, Thanksgiving or any Sunday except me

I am also on call 24/7 so even though I dont physically work in the building at weekends staff contact me if they need me. Initially they would phone me at 4 am in the morning for daft things that could wait until 7am now they only phone me for true emergencies. Although they know they can phone me at home any time I really dont mind.

Specializes in ICU, PACU, OR.

Everyone has had good and bad experiences. Unfortunately not everyone has the best intentions or are the best suited for management jobs. If everyone had great managers or if managers knew everything about motivation, reaching goals, etc there would not be a market of leadership and management books, courses and seminars on the market. Everyone has a part to play. Good manager, good employee. What are you? Do you serve in a position that is only self-serving or steps on the backs of others while you move up? Or, do you want the best for your department/division, your employees, your customers? Do you just want to have the position as a listing on your resume' or do you have a higher understanding about making your work a part of your persona? If you think about it, you spend quite a bit of time away from your family working with relative strangers on a daily basis for probably many years. If you put it in that perspective, do you want harmony, cohesiveness, positive results or do you just want to just get by. Know yourself, know what your personal mission in life is related to your work. I feel if all people do this the workplace and the results of your work would be much more positive. What are the areas that you have the most challenge? Work on it. Little by little you will see more satisfaction in yourself and what your areas accomplish in work units and in interpersonal relations. If people don't "Get It" then lead by example consistently until your employees see what you want to accomplish. Not everyone hears the same way, learns the same way or shares your values. Conflict is inevitable whenever you have opposing interests. Managers have to articulate and exemplify what they want on all levels. Like I said before, management is not for the weak or timid person. There must be an intrinsic like for people and all that goes with diversity in cultures, upbringing, learning styles and finding the beauty in all of that. It can be messy, but all messes can be addressed if you are brave enough to tackle them before they destruct your vision and the vision of your workplace. It's trial and error and if you use resources available to you, like this blog for instance, you can try little things or work on things that may make a difference for your area of work.

What do you mean, when you say 6 nurses in management positions I dont understand?

An example would be when I worked in sub-acute (I lasted four days). I had a 15 pt med pass and no clerk. I remember hearing laughing in a conference room around the corner. I took note of who exited that room 3 hours later. The DON, ADON, case manager, infection control RN, Clinical educator, scheduler, MDS. I remember thinking how bizzarre that it was me and one other nurse on the floor for 30 pt, same scenario on the floor above. It just seemed a little top heavy to me at the time. I had no break....they had lunch delivered.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Dialysis.
What do you mean, when you say 6 nurses in management positions I dont understand?

I work all the holidays! in my company it is not expected that you take mondays off or friday (although I am sure a lot of managers do) Nobody works Xmas Day, New Years Day, Thanksgiving or any Sunday except me

I am also on call 24/7 so even though I dont physically work in the building at weekends staff contact me if they need me. Initially they would phone me at 4 am in the morning for daft things that could wait until 7am now they only phone me for true emergencies. Although they know they can phone me at home any time I really dont mind.

Our management nurses don't work any holidays. We are a 90+ bed facility, on 1rst shift, Monday through Friday we have 4 staff nurses. We also have a DON, ADON, 2 Nurse Managers and 2 MDS and Admission nurses. So, 4 staff nurses and 6 management nurses. The DON is the only one officially on-call for after hours emergencies. Not a very efficient ratio for staff care in my opinion.

Specializes in ICU, PACU, OR.

Hard to change perceptions of team work and compassion for your peers when you practice elitism. That is a tough assignment, and I'm sure I would have left shortly also.