LPN be a CNA? Shower Naked? Nurse in Community?

  1. Hello,

    I read that an RN can not work as a CNA due to the fact that they know more and it would be hard for them to not work outside the bounds of a CNA which is against the CNA policy or something.

    my guess is the CNA policy is that way to be sure that proper treatment is done by one who is trained is this correct? otherwise i dont understand

    can an LPN work as a CNA? or what does it mean to work as a CNA, wouldnt someone who wants to higher a CNA be just as glad if an LPN or RN was willing to take the CNA pay and do CNA tasks? and they would then not be a "CNA" but could still do that if wanted?

    Also i saw a video on giving a shower with a shower chair, in the video the person remaind in some sort of garment and the nurse still washed the person, im figuring the garment was just for the video, which i think is very appropriate, however just in case im wrong, the garment isnt usually warn right? i dont particularly want to see other people naked or to touch their private areas much...

    also I'm working on "de-sensitizing" myself to things i dont feel well or like to see, i started to watch a knee surgery yesterday, however if im more likely to see wounds and such will watching this work for that, or do i need to watch more area specific things?

    also i am wondering what a nurse can do in the community, what kind of service could a nurse provide, if the nurse isnt in the hospital and decides to have a little health clinic type thing, what could the nurse do for people? this relates to here in the US, like going to a place where people dont or cant afford to go to the doctors etc. could a nurse help them, with what, to what extent?

    thanks - jason
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  2. 16 Comments

  3. by   CHATSDALE
    cna cannot work as anyone above them but anyone one above can work in a lower job description
    i a hospital i have seen an rn who was put on aide duty for several days until perceptor could get in...not a happy camper
    i have seen lpns pulled to cna duty when there was a lot of call ins this was a one day next day return to regular duty if their was still a lot of cna shortage another nurse would take turn doing patient care

    however if there is a shortage in aides all should help with patient care even if there is no set procedure

    never saw a person showered with clothes on...i have seen a lot of training films and they were presented as you would be required to handled them
    the people in the film ae aware of what they are going to be doing
    if you ae going to be a nurse you have to be aware of what the body looks like in all his obese/wrinkled glory
    Last edit by CHATSDALE on Jan 10, '07
  4. by   woody436
    Allow me to take a stab at this....keep in mind that I'm a second term junior in a BSN program, so my nursing experience is limited, but I have been a paramedic for 20 years.

    In Illinois, and I'm sure other states, a person holding an M.D. degree is prohibited from becoming a physician assistant. You can see the conflict...

    Similarly, an R.N. can't function as a CNA. Too many conflicts arise out of the client/caregiver relationship, particularly in terms of what a CNA can do versus an RN. My question is: Why would you WANT to work as a CNA if you're an RN??

    As for community nursing, there are certainly community health nurses. They typically work in a satellite clinic as part of a hospital/medical center and assess community health. They work with community leaders and the population for various things like hypertension education, diabetes management, they may be alerted to an illegal dump that's affecting the community or perhaps a factory that is spewing out noxious fumes...the point is that a nurse is a vital component to the health of a community, especially the official public health/community health nurse. As far as "hanging a shingle" and opening a clinic, well that's reserved for the advanced practice nurses that are licensed to do that.

    I hope I've been able to shed some light on the subject. Interesting topic.

    Regards,

    Jeff
  5. by   JBirdAngel
    Thank you for the replies.

    As far as why would I want to work as a CNA, if it proved to provide more quality time with a person that would be a reason, also to know that I could work as a CNA would just keep options open.

    And for community nursing, I meant more if it was not what one was employed to do, could a nurse help people that cant afford to go to the hopsital / doctor, if the nurse saw someone on the street and noticed a health issue, could the nurse help aside from teaching? not at all that teaching is bad, just that it doesnt take becoming an RN to do that.

    Can anyone buy vaccines? if i wanted to get a vaccine could i get it myself (not an rn), if i became an rn could i get it? could an rn give vaccines to others who wouldnt otherwise get it, or is that practioner realm? not sure what all else?

    It would seem to me at this point that a nurse knows how to change dressings on a wound, which would mean to me changing the bandage on it right? Also a nurse knows how to use technology that would be found in a hospital etc. Without that hospital setting and that technology being easily and freely available, does nurse training allow a person to do anything to help others that they wouldnt otherwise be able to do? No offense, is meant, but can a nurse do anything without technology? i guess its the same for all health fields, firstly here they are trained specifically for the enviornment which does include technology so of course that is appropriate, also i guess anything advanced health wise cant really be done as proper tesets couldnt be performed, or proper medicines obtained, or surgery etc. performed without technology or being a practioner or going to med school.

    is this accurate?

    thanks - jason

    p.s. oh i waw also going to ask as a paramedic, does that training apply more to helping people such as in rural/urban communities here in the US or abroad? or does that still rely pretty much on technology and medicines that one couldnt otherwise get?

    not sure i could be a paramedic though as you probably see many horrible things?
  6. by   woody436
    Paramedics were originally created to minimize death due to cardiac arrest. This was way back in the early 70's. Prior to that "ambulance attendants" were mostly employed by private agencies or funeral homes and simply scooped patients up and drove to the hospital.

    Today paramedics are trained to provide treatment for a variety of emergency medical problems included trauma, diabetes crisis, hypertensive crisis, among many others. To treat these problems a paramedic ambulance is stocked with many medications and tools that help treat the patient. However, paramedics do not go around immunizing populations that need them. They do participate with an organization that may do that, but certainly not independently. Paramedics, like most allied health professions, still need to be supervised/directed by a physician. In the case of paramedics the supervising physician is called the project medical director under who's license a paramedic is practicing under.

    In the U.S. there's really no reason an RN would need to keep "options" open and have the "back-up" to work as a CNA. There are plenty of opportunities for RN's. CNA's can't teach and educate a patient, only a RN can do that. CNA's are not trained to interpret the results of vital signs and apply them to the clinical aspects or manifestations of changes in the patient, only an RN can to that. This is not to say an RN can't bathe a patient, or change soiled clothes or linens, in other words CNA like work, but to be an RN gives you many more options than an CNA. I certainly would not bat an eye at doing any of those things when I am a nurse. It's all part of the profession
    Last edit by woody436 on Jan 10, '07 : Reason: misspellings
  7. by   jjjoy
    Why would an RN (or LPN) want to work as a NA? I can give a few reasons.

    One reason a nurse might want to work as an NA is if there aren't any new grad nurse openings in the location/at the time they finish school. Despite the nursing shortage, this does happen in places.

    Another reason is not wanting all the responsibilities of a nurse. In many hospitals, the units are often understaffed and it can feel impossible to give safe care. As an NA, they could take care of many comfort needs of patients without worrying about meds being late, MD phone calls, etc. Certainly, the pay would be much less than a nurse.

    Finally, a nurse may have been out of the workforce for many years and need to go back but not be prepared to work as a floor nurse. They might want to work as an NA while they take a refresher course and get their skills back.
  8. by   jjjoy
    To the OP - it sounds like you maybe you are wondering if nurses have skills that they can practice indepdently in the community, such as giving vaccinations or changing dressings. I don't know what the legal ramifications of that would be. Is that your question? Does anyone know the answer?
  9. by   colleennurse
    Considering vaccines are medications and those require an order/prescription from an MD, I highly doubt that an RN can independantly "give out" vaccines.
  10. by   JBirdAngel
    I am wondering about nurses capabilities outside of the workplace, but that is just noe part of the things i am wondering about, as i would also likely have a job in healthcare if i go this route, im thinking this sounds rude, i dont mean it rudely i just mean that yes that is a question i have but not the only reason i am looking at nursing and related fields, but yes i am wondering how much nursing might help me help people outside of work, in teh community or abroad, would this benefit anything beyond what i could do from reading a book and not gonig to nursing school?

    I wasnt sure about vaccines as i read about an RN planning for vaccines abroad, but this of course was likely part of an organization that included other health workers with the ability to get the medicine.

    i also read in a book that i dont think was intended for professional level healthcare workers and it talked about getting vaccines as part of a village health kit if you could keep them at the proper temperature.

    thanks for the replies and info - jason
  11. by   Jilaweez
    I wouldn't think you would be able to provide care to just anyone off the streets without risking your license. That's why nursing involves so much paper work....everything has to be documented to cover your ###!
  12. by   jimthorp
    Quote from JBirdAngel
    Hello,

    I read that an RN can not work as a CNA due to the fact that they know more and it would be hard for them to not work outside the bounds of a CNA which is against the CNA policy or something.

    my guess is the CNA policy is that way to be sure that proper treatment is done by one who is trained is this correct? otherwise i dont understand

    can an LPN work as a CNA? or what does it mean to work as a CNA, wouldnt someone who wants to higher a CNA be just as glad if an LPN or RN was willing to take the CNA pay and do CNA tasks? and they would then not be a "CNA" but could still do that if wanted?

    Also i saw a video on giving a shower with a shower chair, in the video the person remaind in some sort of garment and the nurse still washed the person, im figuring the garment was just for the video, which i think is very appropriate, however just in case im wrong, the garment isnt usually warn right? i dont particularly want to see other people naked or to touch their private areas much...

    also I'm working on "de-sensitizing" myself to things i dont feel well or like to see, i started to watch a knee surgery yesterday, however if im more likely to see wounds and such will watching this work for that, or do i need to watch more area specific things?

    also i am wondering what a nurse can do in the community, what kind of service could a nurse provide, if the nurse isnt in the hospital and decides to have a little health clinic type thing, what could the nurse do for people? this relates to here in the US, like going to a place where people dont or cant afford to go to the doctors etc. could a nurse help them, with what, to what extent?

    thanks - jason
    Anyone notice the strange questions and responses throughout the board by this poster? I'm quite suspicious.

    feedtroll-gif
    Last edit by jimthorp on Jan 11, '07
  13. by   ktwlpn
    quote>>>>>>Anyone notice the strange questions and responses throughout the board by this poster? I'm quite suspicious.>>>>>
    To the OP-JBirdAngel-You really need to go to your guidance counselor-you are in school? I would guess high school -just judging by your grammar,spelling and almost "child-like" style of speech .No offense meant but before you even consider any type of nursing you should take some initiative and find out what it's all about.You could do some "google-ing" and also go to your library. Use the search feature on this website and check out the threads from the past that discuss "what its really like" Any nurses in your neighborhood that would be willing to share a cup of coffee and chat with you? You need some career counseling and you can't get that on a web site like this.The things you seem most concerned about will not give you a clear picture of nursing.Good luck
  14. by   charlabsn06
    I am not sure about the validity of this poster either, is Jason a student nurse, CNA, LPN/RN, what? At any rate, I am reponding to someone else's comment about why someone would work as an NA/LPN when they have an RN license....

    Not sure about other states regulations, but here in California one is always held to the highest standard of practice. Therefore, if you are an RN (with license) working as a CNA, you are responsible at the RN level for the care of this patient. And any poor outcome/disciplinary action will be recorded on your license, not the NA certificate. The other thing is why would someone go through the trouble of sitting for the LPN boards in addition to the RN? I am a graduate nurse, waiting to take my boards, working as a CNA, and it would be a financial hardship to do both. Whats's the point? I already had my certificate when I began school. And I will continue at my current employer, on a different unit, as a new grad RN once I pass NCLEX.

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