Let the controversy begin.

stressednurse · Nov 28, 2003

Our society has been taught to put blame on everyone but self.

Someone else is responsible for me and my actions.

I have seen a big change since they closed the state facilities.

Katnip, RN · Nov 28, 2003

Skybird, that homeless man is not such an extreme example happens everywhere, all the time. ERs are packed with people who want a dry bed and a free meal.

There was a nurse here who posted some time ago with a story that really stuck in my head: A woman on medicaid in the ER with some ridiculuously minor complain who said; (and I'm doing my best to quote this from memory) "If it were'nt for people like me, you wouldn't have a job."

The nurse posted that she was tempted to say: "If it weren't for people like me, you wouldn't have healthcare."

With patients like this coming in day in and day out, it's now wonder healthcare providers develop a healthy dose of cynicism.

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 28, 2003

Oh we have a complicated, multi-faceted issue here in your example.....that was a mouthful. And it's about more than healthcare here....

Yes there are abuses. Gross misuses. Yes there are malingerers. and we have a society that increasingly seeks to blame everyone else for our problems rather than try to take responsiblity them. WE are a nation of "victims" and have been for a generation now.

Is the homeless man's example is the typical? I agree with the poster before me who said the problem is worse since so many mentally-ill have been "turned out" on the streets with no resources and no means to self-support. This guy MAY have been one of them. Or maybe just trouble looking for a place to stir things up (somehow I don't think so). I can't judge for sure.

I wish I knew all the answers.

Sadly, I see it only getting worse as lack of access to healthcare, and other basics-- (such as food/shelter/clothing) -- many of us take for granted become increasingly acute in years to come. I believe many of answers/solutions are in right in front of us; we just do not want to SEE. We are too busy taking care of everything else and worrying about policing everyONE else in the world to take CARE OF OUR OWN here at home. It angers and disgusts me, how we behave in some ways. yes, the answers are out there but do we want to tackle them? :confused:

NursePerson · Nov 28, 2003

"Furthermore, those who are not insured and have no means to pay the bill line up out the door as well. "

"I was managing a full service restaurant and a homeless man came in off the street and laid on the waiting bench in the lobby. This took away from the ambience of the restaurant as many patrons were distracted. I had asked the gentleman to either take a seat or vacate the premises. He asked if he could stay there from the rain and cold. I had told him that he could stay as long as he was a paying customer. "

"The man just wanted a place to hang his head for a few. "

I became a nurse to help deal with the problems in our society and i learned a longtime ago not to prejudge anyone. To judge others tends to put a barrier between me and my patients and i con not care for them. So i let God do the judging and i have it easy i get to do the job i love caring for all people.

All i can say is nursing means when someone was cold i took them in, When they were hungry i feed them, when they were in prison i come to visit, when they were lonely i comforted them, and i did these things without judgment. And i am not the one who should turn anyone away from any service available to them. I also try to remember to treat everyone as i want my family or myself to be treated. I guess i just love nursing to much to burden myself with the small battles it is the big things in society that bother me the most. Thanks

LeesieBug · Nov 28, 2003

The reason people with no insurance line up at the ER for minor health issues is because otherwise they get NO health care. The ER is the only place you can go with no money and no insurance, in most places, and not get turned away. It is no big mystery.

I though everyone knew, by now, that there is a virtual crisis going on with HUGE numbers of families who cannot afford health care.

If we would address THAT problem, we would probably see a whole lot LESS of the minor problems in the ERs.

passing thru · Nov 28, 2003

Skybird,

I too, thought this kind of abuse had to stop.

UNTIL I read in the papers that---- in 2003 and 2004,

the government --OUR government-- will spend >

two hundred BILLION dollars IN IRAQ !!

I would write that in zero's, but I don't know how many it is ...

I'll try.

$ 200,000,000,000

American tax dollars ! Let this sink in please......

Think ! Look at your paycheck stub. How much did you pay last payday in income taxes?

How much of YOUR money that you worked for and never saw went to the Federal Treasury??

Multiply that by 40 million American workers.

Realize there are thousands of American businessmen who will

be millionaires after this "war."

Thanks to lucrative/wasteful government contracts.

Bush and Chaney were already millionaires....they will both be MUCH wealthier.

Two hundred billion dollars spent in one country about the size of Texas..... in 2 years.

Please let that really sink in.

Do I lose sleep over a few down and outs who are "abusing " the system ?

The media frequently focuses on this kind of "abuse."

We hear about these abuses that are "nickels and dimes",

that PALE in comparison to the TRUE ABUSES.

Will I vote these characters into office for FOUR MORE YEARS?

LOL

Let's look at the bigger picture.

Let's look at what really is costing us ,

and costing our futures.

Our nation is in debt, in hock,

"Our nation" that means you and I,

we have a bill to pay, this $200 Billion wasn't in a big savings account somewhere.

It was borrowed !

Yes, the treasury borrowed all 200 billion to send to Iraq.

Now,

OUR futures are hocked to pay for this year and next in Iraq.

Worried about a bum?

Nope.

I'm worried about the thief in the White House.

barefootlady, ADN, RN · Nov 28, 2003

Call me nuts but I would rather pay for healthcare for a fellow American than spend billions of dollars on people who want to see me and my country blown up.

I know how hard it is to make it in today's world, hubby's meds cost over 700.00 a month. Do I work, yes, and will until I drop.

Health insurance costs and rising med costs are causing lots of people to choose between eating and meds.

Call me old fashioned but I do think we own our veterans a duty that none of us can repay. They have answered a call that many of us have not supported and left loved ones behind. Some of them will never come home again, or if they do they will never be able to forget the horror of war.

I agree that we are supporting countries all over the world and letting our own citizens suffer. I hope I never look at a patient, on public assistance or not, and feel like saying, because of me you have insurance. We, as citizens need to look into electing better educated officials, taking part in groups that are seeking solutions for some of these problems, and trying to be accountable for the actions of our families and ourselves.

I don't pretend to know the answer to these problems but I sure want to be as positive an influence, on those around me as I can be, and not abuse those , either in thought or deeds, who are less fortunate than myself.

Katnip, RN · Nov 28, 2003

I agree we should pay for our own people before others.

However, should those who do not work, have never worked or contributed have more right to healthcare than those who do work but do not have access to insurance but make too much money to qualify for assistance?

I'm not talking about those who are disabled mentally or physically and cannot work, but I've seen many, many people who tell me why bother working when they don't have to.

fergus51 · Nov 28, 2003

Everyone should have access to proper health care. Until that happens, there will be people going to the emergency room and "abusing" the services. The abuser is just a symptom of the disease.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Nov 28, 2003

fergus, I think in countries like Canada and Sweden where there is universal healthcare these kinds of abuse occur there as well. They also have to struggle with unnecessary tests, etc. But that doesn't mean, I don't think we need universal access for all.

NursePerson, I'm not sure the ER nurses role is "when someone was cold i took them in, When they were hungry i feed them, when they were in prison i come to visit, when they were lonely i comforted them...........". It is very noble and honorable that's what it is to you. I'm going to disagree. The emergency room is not a homeless shelter. However, I daresay that when the homeless person comes in for a place to sleep when it's cold, and complains of chest pain no nurse worth anything is going to turn him/her away. Also a nurse, I don't feel it's my duty to visit prisons.

Of course, I'm full of words and have no answers to the initial questions.

Agnus · Nov 28, 2003

I do not see a controversy. Everyone here including the original poster has stated there is a problem in our health care and social system.

I do not think you can seperate a social issue from a nursing issue. Nurses after all were the original social workers.

Nurses also were the original people who tied together such mundane things as a person needing a stove to prepare food and safty issues like seat belts etc to health, access to funds to purchase food and the need to teach nutrition etc etc.

Most of us are clinical however, we all know nursing extends beyond the clinical into the community. Into very mundane issues that most people would never associate with nursing. Such as having a proper running automobile so that you can work so that you can provide basics for your self and family so that you stay healthy. These are nursing issues.

Nope no controversy. A lot of frustration yes.