JUST SAY NO TO MNM - page 4

Million Nurse March? Give me a break. uh yea, like I want to march to Washington like a bunch of whiney minorities to ask the government to step into my life a little more. Sounds to me like... Read More

  1. by   Stargazer
    Originally posted by rncountry:
    I'm sorry that you find what I write boring, or as a story, it is the way I communicate when I am trying to show why I believe what I believe.
    rncountry, I doubt I would find your posts boring if I were able to read them, as you seem very impassioned and clearly generate equally impassioned responses. With all due respect, though, I find it just as difficult visually to read very long, unbroken posts as I do reading posts that are in all caps. It's simply not worth giving myself a headache over.

    I wonder if, in deference to those of us who are similarly impaired, you would consider breaking up your posts a bit? Paragraphs are good. White space is our friend. Thanks.

    Edited because dictionaries are our friends, too.



    [This message has been edited by Stargazer (edited March 28, 2001).]
  2. by   rncountry
    Thank you for your suggestion.
  3. by   -jt
    Originally posted by postaledde:
    Let's look at the math and the current way things are being done. the agency charges the facility $50 an hour at a rate of $2,000 for the week. If I was to hire 2 nurses at $20 an hour for that same 40 hours I would only spend $1600. I have given you an extra staff member decreasing your work load which makes you want to stay.I have given you a fair wage and saved the facility $400. .
    Not really because you didnt factor in the cost of benefits, time on the books (vacations, holidays,etc) & other expenses of hiring FTEs/PTEs
    (full time employees/part time employees). Its more than just salary. And when census is low, you cant just cancel that hired employee. They are still on your payroll & still an expense to you even when you dont need them. If you fill the holes with agency that can be canceled when not needed, you dont have the headache of having to downsize either. Because of all this, it is more cost-effective - business wise - for the hospitals to not fill vacancies & just use agency when they need them - or spread out the staff they do have with heavier assignments. Even though it looks to us like that costs them more - it really doesnt. To the numbers-crunchers, its just good business sense.
  4. by   -jt
    [QUOTE]If every state in the country passes the legislation that they have, is that going to decrease the shortage or increase it? It will increase it. Where are all the extra nurses going to come from? We do not have enough now to fill the spots that are open. Do you think that suddenly all the people that left are going to come flocking back, after finding 8 to 5 jobs without all the aggravations, with better pay, and no weekends? [Q]

    No...conditions have to be improved first...but we do have the numbers of nurses out there now, if they can be enticed to come back to work. A survey was done in one state that shows that enough RNs wanted to come back & would if conditions were different. The survey showed that so many would return to work that the nursing shortage there would be obliterated.

    heres something elsse, too...

    "Salary increase spurs return of ex-nurses
    Refresher courses in big demand

    Former nurses in Calgary are rushing to rejoin the profession following a recent provincial settlement of 22 per cent more money over two years....." http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news1...6/5069237.html


  5. by   Doc
    Wow I missed a lot in a few days! Wildtime, the internet allows me to keep in touch with what is happening in your country, and I must say there are a few differences. For instance, here the word "thong" means those flip-flaps you wear on your feet, so I had the mental picture of you mud-wrestling, wearing nothing but a single flip-flap!!!

    I don't really see the relevance of your argument about how selfish people can be in society. You don't need to buy into that mentality. However, in view that people want to meet their own needs first (call it selfishness, Maslow's theory or whatever you like) the public will not look to striking or walking out very well, and the image of nursing is going to suffer even more. I don't like the idea of private facilities setting the standard. For a start that is not the same as nurses empowering themselves to make the change. Secondly, the goal for these organisations will always be cost-cutting. Sure, for a while they may try to attract nurses with good conditions, as many new facilities have done. Don't expect it to last.

    I was unable to find that article you mentioned on http://massnurses.org, so forgive me, but I fail to see how legislation has to take the power away from nurses, if it is done in the right way.

    As for Buck's argument that we will not get people to come back to the profession, I think we need to stick with attracting more people to study nursing, as well as to provide the right conditions for them to stick with it until graduation or throughout a full career.
  6. by   lita1857
    Doc I am sitting here LOL till my sides hurt...the visual of the "thong" versus a pair of "flip flops" AKA thong is just crack'in me up ....THANKS!
  7. by   CEN35
    Originally posted by CEN35:
    OK I was drawn to this thread by wildtime through a post she made under the emergency nursing area.

    oO (before I go on, wild ya can email me a pic of you in a thong I would like to see it)and no thats not a cut down, cut downs get nobody anywhere fast.

    #1 - I see wild, rex, buck, and a few others turning this into a beat everybody else up campaign. Why not just change the name of this thread to "let's tell everybody who posts here, how stupid, naeive and arrogant we are?" Did I forget anything? Oh yeah, chauvenistsic too!

    A) - I se RN ccountries valid points. She obviously feels that the march may help show some unity among nurses, which is clearly what our proffesion has needed all along.

    B)- Despite how some others may feel or think, legislating mandotory staffing (with penalties by law) is the first step in correcting part of the situation. The second step being, that once our goverment has acknowledged the need for more nurses/increase staffing, they may consider Federal funding towards sending students to nursing school, and paying for their education. Or even better yet, funding to the hospitals to do this, with a 2-5 yr mandate of working for the facility once passing boards.

    C) Look at wilds earlier post? Can families tell you what you do at work? Does the public know? All the questions she asked on that post (on this thread are legitimate not pessemistic). If your own family doesn't know......or your neighbors or friends don't know, how the hell is the public going to know? All she said, was ask a few of your friends or people you know? Are scared that wild is right? Do they think we are nothing but bedpan pushers and pill passers?

    more later have to go
  8. by   CEN35
    Continued -

    The way I see it goverment intervention is a last resort. The thing everybody should be looking for with the March, is media publicity. We all know by now (or should have) that the public does not care about any issues not concerning them. Most have no clue, because of a lack of education on issues. Most of the public is educated on issues of any sort by the media. This pretty much goes with the goverment also. Unfortunately I'll bet while most of you ******** here, very few if any have sat down and wrote a letter to congress. Any takers on this new poll? "concerned about staffing issue and patient safety? Have you wrote a letter to your congressman?"

    Despite "Involving goverment can be dangerous" as someone earlier posted.....it is a last result.

    Most nurses I know will not go on strike for ethical reasons and/or money.

    Unions are not the answer, because they carry and support the dead weight.

    Administrations don't care. I went to a recent meeting in our system. One of the topics was quality of care and agency nurses.
    Of the four hospitals involved, the hospital with the highest customer satisfaction was ours(we'll call it hospital #1), while the lowest was (we'll call it) hospital #4).
    On the other hand, Hospital #1 spent 1.2 million dollars for the year in agency nurses. Hospital #4 spent 6.4 million dollars in agency nurses. This is not intended to reflect poor care on the part of agency nurses. It does show the possibility that with a lack of staff or regular staff, patient satisfaction goes down. While I don't have statistics of the sort, my assumption is that there could also be a relation to patient safety.
    I work with a couple people that work agency...they don't pick up extra hours for us..... they do it for the money which is why most do.

    Our current nursing shortage is due to the nurses working agency for the money, and law firms and insurance companies for the 5 days a week schedule, etc etc. If the money was there, I'll bet those people would head back towards the hospitals.
    However, that does not effect the future. Nursing schools are closing down, nursing grads are decreasing. the schools that are left are having trouble filling the open spots. The future of nursing lies in the recruiting new nurses. I still think the way to go is to have the goverment fund hospitals, who in turn use the money to pay for school for new recruits. Then they would have to work, X- amount of years. Kind of like a restricted free agency.

    I have mentioned to out COO, why not pay the regular staff more money? Like agency people? they claim the agencies will pay more then, and it will leave them at ground zero again. I don't beleive that one. While it might happen......if all systems did this.....they may not be able to afford to pay agencies, which would put the agencies out of bussiness.....send ing nurses back to the hospital. Just a thought? Everybody on here has had some ludicrous thoughts, as well as good ones.

    We nee to work with each other, not against each other. The 1st 20 or so posts, clearly indicate no unity here, just who can blast the other person. soooooooo????? Lets stop that.


    CEN35 (Rick)

  9. by   pickledpepperRN
    If I am broadsided on one of our famous freeways how will I tell the paramedics not to send me to an understaffed hospital?
    "Let the market decide" only works when customers have the choice not to buy. With a rib in my liver and lung, how can I say, "Oh well, I would rather have a competent RN than this teenaged aide floated from postpartum to admit me, so I'll just go to another hospital"?


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  10. by   ucandoit
    [quote=buck227]million nurse march?
    give me a break.

    uh yea, like i want to march to washington like a bunch of whiney minorities to ask the government to step into my life a little more.

    sounds to me like another special interest group with the purpose of self profit under the guise of a "nursing association". if you want to be heard, write your represenative. don't spend your time or money with these groups that pretend to be acting in your best interest.

    we need less government not more. if you disagree with the work environment you are in then just quit. i did from my last job and it feels great. don't tolerate any bs from your employer. there is no excuse in nursing to complain about being stuck in the job you are in. there are a dozen other opportunities to be had by just getting a new job. and if you don't like your new job then quit it too.

    the system will get better if we all do this, it has to. if you get the government to step in with more regulation, you will find more paper work and lower wages.

    we shall overcome!

    so nah!


    buck, for you to refer to the mmm as a "bunch of whiney minorities" is a true symbol of your ignorance. as a black woman i am proud of black men for going through with the mmm (and for you to even attempt to label them as whiney is ignorant). black men are some of the strongest and bravest men i know. obviously you are racially and culturally dumb, so i wont be too hard on you, but, you must not have the slightest idea of what the mmm stood for. look it up!!! oh,and if you are wondering what i mean by mmm, it stands for million man march! peace!-tara
    Last edit by ucandoit on Sep 21, '04
  11. by   gwenith
    Closing this thread before old age catches up with it!!!

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