Is it legal? What's your opinion??

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Nov 18, 2001

BTW: I printed out the website info AS it appeared on November 17,2001. Will be contacting the Utah state nurses assoc to see if any sanctions can be imposed, although we got what we wanted.

A private physican can staff his office anyway he sees fit and have his staff perform ANY procedure that he has trained them to perform under HIS license. It is important that office nurses have CLEAR lines of responsibilites in their job descriptions. Here, the physicans have stated the MA's are under the PROVIDERS supervision: MD + PNP---therefore THEY are responsible if a mistake is made. If the office nurses has SUPERVISION of the medical assistants, then they are functioning under the NURSES license.

Buyer / staff beware!

Ryan11011 · Nov 18, 2001

I thought of something that you may find interesting. I used to work in a large private practice (internal medicine). When I first started working there I was doing telephone triage and they had Medical Assistants giving medications. Then one day the MA's job description changed and they could no longer administer medications. I found out that one of the NP's who worked in the clinic had discovered a case in Illinois where a medical assistant was found to be practicing nursing without a license -- she was administering medications and counseling patients over the phone regarding medical issues. She was working for an OB/GYNE. Anyway, I did a CINAHL search at that point and found a short article. It turns out that the physician and the MA were taken to court -- the state of illinois determined that medication administration and counseling patients were activities that only licensed RN's could perform. Also interesting was that it didn't matter if the MA was supervised or not by the physician because the nurse practice act reserves those activities for RN's. I know every state is different and physicians often think that they can legally supervise any activity, but this case made the organization that I was working for change the job descriptions.

Mkue · Nov 18, 2001

I too went to the website and it's kind of hard to read. Something is wrong with it, the bio's are overlapping one another or something. But I get the idea. That Doctor is probably trying to save money and not hire actual nurses, which compromises patients greatly.

I hope something is done about that.

Mijourney · Nov 18, 2001

Hi. Well, here we go. The issue of the AMA or some its members trying to solely define nursing is the reason why I've been a fervent backer of more standardization and elevation as far as nursing education is concerned. Where will it end?! You know, there are laypeople out there that could easily define themselves as nurses too. Heck, these laypeople toil day in and day out with their loved ones in difficult predicaments using the knowledge and skills that the CNAs and nurses have instructed them or they've learned on their own. Where will it end?! Once nursing gets its internal house in order, then hopefully we can see to it that some of the madness practiced by some of our doctors it stopped.

Ryan, if I read you correctly you pointed out that in a lawsuit that the doctor and MA was taken to court, not the doctor, nurse, and MA? Doesn't that prove once and for all that doctors are not nurses' supervisors? Doctors are teamleaders which is not the same as supervisors and nurses are a part of the team.

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Nov 18, 2001

Used a different computer and verified correction were made. Let's see how this all plays out....

Ryan11011 · Nov 18, 2001

MiJourney -

I can't recall right now, but I don't believe there was a nurse in that practice. I'll get the info tomorrow at work when I have access to CINAHL. I also found the whole court record on the web about a year ago...I'll try to find it again. I'll provide the links tomorrow.

Jenny P · Nov 18, 2001

Okay, here's something that just made me drop my chin on the floor. Last time I took my dog to the vet, the vet. assistant was wearing a nametag stating "Veterinary Nurse". I told her she couldn't use the term "Nurse" like that as it was protected under the Nurse Practice Act, and she said that it was what she did and what her title was. When I called the Board of Nursing, I found out that "Nurse" is NOT a protected title here in Minnesota! We will have to work on that and I'm going to have to start a campaign to change that here. And I thought we were so progressive here!

Home Health Columnist / Guide · Nov 18, 2001

Title Protection for Registered Nurses -- Examples from State Nurse Practice Acts

http://www.nursingworld.org/gova/titlepro.htm

There was legislation in PA to permit veternary nurse(?sp) last year. We shot it down due to concerns re persons shorting title to nurse and mistaken impression these persons are RN's.

OBNURSEHEATHER · Nov 18, 2001

If you read the bios, the one actual nurse they have doesn't even work in a nursing capacity all the time. It says she's part time nurse, part time telephone triage, and part time administrator.

So let's sum up the practice:

1 doctor

1 "part time" nurse

4 medical assistants (including the telephone information girl)

6 receptionists

2 office managers

Hmmmmmmm...

Heather

Genista, BSN, RN · Nov 19, 2001

I too received the reply from the pediatric MD. It we had not intervened, who knows how long that (website mislabeling) would have went on? This issue comes up time & again (UAPs being called nurses). I am pleased to know other nurses are as offended by this practice as I am!

We had an incident at work earlier in the year where a UAP was prominently labeled a "nurse" in a local newspaper advertisement. All the RNs & LVNs were justifiably upset about this, and when we complained to administration, they did not understand why we were "so upset." They thought we were being "overly sensitive" and that the ad was meant to thank all health care workers on our team (why did they label the UAP a nurse, then? Why not just thank the healthcare team?) There was a long debate that went on in the local newspaper editorial column after that. I still feel angry when I think back on it. It's very plain to me... either you are a nurse or you are not. Anything else is fallacious misrepresentation.

betts · Nov 19, 2001

The replies are Generic for sure,he probably has his maintenance man; oops; computer programmer sitting at the computer clicking ENTER.

So being my husband is computer literate and he loves our site, he reccommended sending an email to the WEB DESIGNER as all clients have to sign the Term of Agreement (TOA) which consists of terms concerning; misrepresentations,falsifing,or misleading.

Subj: Verification of Disclaimer

Date: 11/19/2001 2:04:50 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: Betts8753

To: [email protected]

Sir and/or Madam,

Wouldn't it be in your best interest to Verify the Information to be included in any site(s) that you Design? Would it not? I would also review my TOA pertaining to misleading or false claims made.

As with PCP; one of your clients, whom misrepresented too the public at large that their Certified Nursing Assistants are Nurses is unethical and illegal.

We, the Nurses of allnurses have brought about the changes too the site but, are duly concerned about the children and the information given too the parents by unlicensed personnel.

Please take notice that we contacted you as the Web Designer so safeguards could be revisited for your own good.

We appreciate your attention in this matter and Thank You for your time.

B. L. K. RN,

Reply: Subj: Returned mail: User unknown

Date: 11/19/2001 2:05:15 PM Eastern Standard Time

From: [email protected]

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**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Nov 20, 2001

I was just thinking about all the emails this doc must have gotten and the poor boy probably doesn't know what hit him. He's probably thanking his lucky stars that he DOESN'T have more nurses at his office...tee hee! :cool: :)