I didn't know the shortage was THIS bad - page 4
Just visited a unit today in preparation for my students taking clinicals there. On this particular unit, ONE HALF of the nurses are travelers. The unit only houses 6 pods (4-pt module) and one pod... Read More
Aug 17, '02Sarahstudent:
Nursing schools would not make nearly so much money if people actually DID remain in nursing for many years, as there would be less demand. Lots of great available!, they tell you. False advertising? Sure.
Any motivation for the schools to be more realistic about the job market? Not for the schools.
Any motivation for the schools to be more realistic about how these future nurses can effectively deal with the present admin/supervision problems in hospitals? To teach their students how to organize and force changes? Or how to force institutions to simply obey the laws now in existence? Nope. Facilities, including nursing schools, want compliant, "yes" people who do exactly what they are told without question, and think that if something is wrong, it must be with "themselves."
High turnover=more demand for new nurses=more demand for nursing schools=higher tuition and more instructor/school financial security.
Hospital corporations, HMOs, and strike-breaking temp agencies aren't the only ones getting fat from breaking our backs.Last edit by sjoe on Aug 18, '02
Aug 17, '02At a time when nurses of all categories should pull together to request changes it seems that we become further apart.
Daily new grads faced with the realities of bedside nursing, of broken backs and less support decide to walk away and find anothe field.
It is just not the RN who is leaving, but LVN's and CNA's as well. I, too, am getting ready to place my license on hold as I venture into the world of business and education.
It is sad when we see other professions that randomly acquire raises, better benefits, and have the ability to discuss issues while we are faced daily with balancing the life of a patient and the balancing our own.
Lately it seems that management has taken away yet another personal right. More and more they add an extra shift without that nurses knowledge and most appear to feel threatened if they say no. Young nurses wonder what to do and older ones, it seems, have little time to acknowledge their fears and offer comfort.
It is sad that in a profession that has so much to offer has offerred little in return.
Maybe in the next millenium.
Aug 17, '02Dplear I already SAID what is wrong in my post. And yet, the question really remains basically unanswered. WHAT DO YA HAVE TO DO TO MAKE THAT AMOUNT? WHERE DO YOU HAVE TO WORK? cause NO ONE I KNOW IS MAKING 6 figures except travelers, even AGENCY workers. And I live in a so-called "high salary" region of our country.
Don't you think we ALL should be worth such figures....not have to be mercernary in our pursuits of better pay and benefits?
Just out of curiosity, where in TEX are you? I used to live andwork in Oklahoma, 12 miles N.of the TX border and we CERTAINLY WERE NOT EVEN CLOSE TO MAKING 50K let alone 100K!Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Aug 17, '02
Aug 17, '02Debbie there are LPNs in WA ... not working agency, who are making at least close to $50,000 a year...and I know RN there who are making that much.
Also...just because someone choses to "travel"...there are many who never "travel" outside their own hometown! I stayed in S. C. for 4 years, and "traveled"...and lived in the same place for two of those years. I also lived right there in Seattle, and did 4 contracts...without ever moving! Yes there are hospitals who prefer not to hire travelers who live within 50 miles of the hospital. But even so...I have lived within walking distance of the hospital I contracted at, and was there for 4 or 5 contracts. And at another hospital for 2 contracts. At the hospitals in Wa. I lived with 14 miles of one hospital, 18 miles of another, and 6 miles of still another. You don't have to really "travel" to "TRAVEL"
I also made over $50,000...not including housing!
Aug 17, '02Several of the regular staff nurses at the jail where I worked did lots of overtime and made over $100K/year. And I'm not talking about young kids. Overtime just never interested me. One guy, besides working at the jail, did lifeline flights per diem, and most likely made that much as well. (He WAS a young kid with endless energy.)
Aug 18, '02Dplear,
Hate to be naive, but what the heck does everyone mean by saying selling services to highest bidder? I live in Texas working as a traveler. Sounds almost illegal. But earning 6 figures in Texas would be amazing.
Aug 18, '02You are not naive texas......what I mean is that we have to HUNT and PECK to find a job that pays us commensurate w/our experience, education, certifications and of course, risks each day we work. WHY should we have to SEARCH far and wide and knock ourselves our for pay and benefits commensurate w/what we do? That is my $1mil question. Anyone?
Oh and Brownie thanks for your info. I can see traveling does not necessarily mean out of state. But my question is why can't hospitals pay their REGULAR employees well and treat them decently, travelers don't HAVE TO BE USED to staff up to 50% of a shift at times? I think it is not only unfair to regular employees but potential dangerous staffing-wise. Another $1mil question. It burns me up! That is what I mean by highest bidder times and mercernary attitudes. It really has come down to that I guess for many.Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Aug 18, '02
Aug 19, '02Please be informed that not all agency/temp nurses are here today and gone tomorrow.
Hospitals have contracted agency nurses--contract is for 13 weeks. Just no assistance with housing or benefits.
in some cases these contracts keep turning over for years. I had one for 5 years and know coworkers who are now going on their 7th year of 13 week contracts.
WE are staff without having to hassle the politics and low pay.
You might be wise to inquire before you blow smoke!
Aug 19, '02Dplear and Teeituptom-- a question for you: does this 6 figure annual salary of yours include strike breaking? Karen has a good article about this in the Nursing Activism section: http://allnurses.com/forums/showthre...threadid=20937
I wonder if the outfit that contacted the nurse with the $35,000/6 weeks contract was involved in strike-breaking activities??? She did ask them about that and they denied it, but it makes you wonder still... We all need to be careful-- a lot of these outfits are very sneaky and will not be upfront to prospective nurse employees about the strike-breaking nature of these lucrative contracts.
I have also noticied in my six years of nursing experience that male nurses tend to have much more "brass" in negotiating wages with TPTB---which is a good thing, IMHO. One male nurse that I know was making about $75,000/year working in a large teaching hospital. He was working weekend option (approx $39/hr) and also other units in the hospital offering incentive pay (double time plus $4 extra/hour for entire hours worked in 2 weeks).. sometimes 5 or 6 12-hour shifts/week. Did this for months on end. Made himself sick doing it--he ended up in the hospital.
Aug 19, '02Justwanted to say that the nursing shortage is even worse in Canada, Ontario specifically. Here the government pays for health care so wages in comparison with cost of living is outrageous. I am talking $20/hr for full time new grad, and this is Cdn $. I love nursing and would never give it up, but the politics are everywhere, poking their nose where it does not belong. Health care is about getting the sick better and keeping the healthy healthy! We also appear to have a shortage of funding in every aspect of health care, like supplies. I was just wondering what the RN to patient ratio is for any of you?
Aug 19, '02Howdy yall
from deep in the heat of texas
Well VickyRN, That being a little over hundred k, that I earn. Used to be because I hired to do specific jobs, aside from staff. Took training and instructor classes, in TNCC,ACLS,CPR etc. I also trained in policy and procedure writing, quality assurance, process improvement,lower level management. And I would go in and help solve problems and such. I was good at it and I marketed it in my resumes. However with more and more nurse achieving these skills, Ive backed off on that this last 5 or 6 yrs or so.Not totally but. Ive been a RN for 2.5 decades now. But I still market a top of the line base pay for myself.Then include specialty diffs, night shift diffs and weekend diffs. Its only a mild to moderate amt of overtime and I stll do a 100 k gross income.
And as you put it I have BIG BRASS ONES in negotiating.
While I have on occasion done a little strike breaking work that does not go into my annual salary. That goes into a special account in my ledger. And I dont include it in my gross income. Except I do pay my taxes appropiately on it.
And yes I will probably do about 100 to 105 k this year. and thats mostly due to years of experience and getting older. And Ive never known what it is to be sick from overwork. I always managed to get my family time and golf time in. And that is the secret. Keeping a balance.
Good work, good family, good golf, and good sex and I will probably be around anither 30 years.
doo wah ditty
Aug 19, '02NO one is blowing smoke here...we are speaking of our experiences and no one is knocking agency/traveler nurses, we are just wanting equal pay for equal education/certification/experience/work. not too much to ask. not all o us CAN travel or want to.
It is the hospitals who upset me when they are willing to pay an agency 2 to 3 times what we make to staff. make it WORTH my while to come in on a SCHEDULED DAY OFF; pay me just what an agency would get, and I just might come in! And, if they PAID us that in the FIRST place, I think our staffing situations might improve considerably.Last edit by SmilingBluEyes on Aug 19, '02
Aug 19, '02_"----While I have on occasion done a little strike breaking work--" teeituptom--
Is this anything like being a 'little pregnant"? a scab is a scab my friend and one of the reasons, Smilinblueyes, that we do not get the benefits, the respect, PAY we SHOULD.