help me buck the system, please! super-traditional pinning ceremony that nobody wants

Nurses General Nursing

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Hi all-

I'm posting this in the general discussion rather than the student discussion, as I want to hear from people who were successful in doing something like this.

I'm the president of my ADN class, graduating this May. We have 17 students, 14 of them women. Our faculty is, almost entirely, *extremely* conservative, and the school is in a very small town. Our pinning ceremony is held in a church, and has pretty significant christian religious overtones, which I have a problem with; I think it's an inappropriate blurring of the line between church and state (this is a state-funded community college), and I've had a few students express discomfort with having the ceremony in this church. By the way- it's only held there for faculty preference; there's plenty of room on campus.

My main concern, though, is the attire for the ceremony. We're being forced to wear white dresses and caps. Now, we have to wear the caps in most clinical rotations, which is enough of an indignity (people think we're kidding, that other staff members are playing practical jokes on them by sending students in the room with caps on...it's nauseating, but I've tried to change this with no success). But I think it's ludicrous to insist we wear them at the pinning ceremony. It's *our* event, not the faculty's. In my opinion, the requirement that women wear dresses is inappropriately sexist, and from a logistical standpoint, *nobody* should be spending money on a white dress that will gather dust forever, when we have the expense of the NCLEX looming in our immediate future.

We have one student who wants to wear a white dress, and the others are adamantly opposed to it. I'm looking for ways to approach the program director with alternatives...I think that I need to have some suggestions, or he's just going to shut it down completely. Personally, this issue is important enough to me that I won't attend the ceremony if we have to wear the dresses. I know of at least 2 other women who plan to do the same thing.

My current plan is to have a meeting with the director and my vice-president to discuss the feelings our class has about the issue, and suggest a couple of alternatives- wearing nice, 'dressy' outfits, or wearing our clinical uniform (white smock and lab coat with navy pants). I'd like to hear from anyone else who had to address this issue, and how you resolved it. I'm also open to any suggestions *anyone* has...this director is extremely old-fashioned (he said he'd have us all wearing black stockings and orthopedic shoes, if he had his way), but he also respects me *specifically* because I'm confident and outspoken. By the way, if this were not the prevailing feeling of the other class members, I'd just skip the ceremony...I'm treating it like a class issue because I feel that's my role as the class president.

Also, please don't try to convince me we should be wearing the dresses. I don't really give a hoot about someone else's traditions that encourage disrespect and sexism, so the 'traditional' nurse's uniform is something I refuse to ever put on my body. I find the caps degrading enough...I am a medical professional in training, and there's nothing more irritating than having a doctor or nurse or patient say, 'how *cute*!!' when I walk into a room. If you disagree with me, I certainly respect your opinion, but I am absolutely certain of my position on this subject.

Please enlighten me. How is religion being forced on you just because something is held in a church? If it isn't a religous ceremony it isn't religous. A church is just a building. Many functions can be held there. As I mentioned many devout christians go to many ceremonies in many buildings and never make it out to be a way to break their religous beliefs.

Were they going to make you pray? Was there going to be prayer? Was there going to be a Preacher or minister? The church is a congregation of people that come together to worship, a building is just a building. A building where a church meets is often considered a church but if you look into it you will find that NO building is really what contains God or religion, people house God. Religion is a set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.

I just want to add that it seems strange to me. If a person does not believe in God or organized religion then why would a House of worship threaten you? It would seem to me that "Church" or house of worship would have no meaning at all if you had no belief? So I would really like to know what the issue is.

The point is that there was no reason for the ceremony to be held in a church. We have plenty of other community buildings that are much more appropriate for a graduation or a pinning ceremony. Right behind the stage was the baptismal... the guests sat in pews... there were crosses and religious symbols all over the place. How can you possibly think that that is appropriate? You can't force your views onto others. Just because having a ceremony in a church wouldn't bother you, that doesn't mean it won't bother someone else.

DITTO!

What is the real issue here?

By the way, if you are offered a job with a Catholic, Baptist, or other medical facility with religious affiliation, will you refuse the job? What will you do if the hospital you work in has a chapel in it (a church inside the building where you will be working). Won't that be like working in a church?

Yes, I would refuse a job with a Catholic, Baptist, or any other religiously affiliated facility. Actually, I wouldn't have to worry about refusing because I would never apply for a position there to begin with.

The chapel inside the hospital is totally different. It is a small segment of the hospital that is there for the patients to comfort them if they so choose. I won't have to visit the chapel, and I won't be forced to attend staff meetings there. As a matter of fact, I doubt I'll even walk by it on a monthly basis.

And what about the daily prayer almost all Hospitals say a prayer for thanks in the morning and again in the evening?

The first time a daily prayer is said in any facility that I am employed at will be my cue to leave.

It is just fine for patients to pray. It is fine for nurses to get together and pray in a group if they so choose. Unlike some of the posters here, I respect everyone's beliefs and have no desire to try to make them think the way I do.

However, it is NOT okay to expect everyone to participate or to blast it over the hospital system.

Yes, I would refuse a job with a Catholic, Baptist, or any other religiously affiliated facility. Actually, I wouldn't have to worry about refusing because I would never apply for a position there to begin with.

The chapel inside the hospital is totally different. It is a small segment of the hospital that is there for the patients to comfort them if they so choose. I won't have to visit the chapel, and I won't be forced to attend staff meetings there. As a matter of fact, I doubt I'll even walk by it on a monthly basis.

I don't know about walking by it in MY facility it is right by the main entrance and everyone that enters that way walks past it daily.

As for trying to change anyone's belief's I haven't, I simply asked for a clarification about what is so threatening about a public building where Church is held?

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

and you were answered, CCU NRS! H ave a great day, and I hope the OP's pinning is what her class wants it to be; it's their moment, not anyone elses'!

The point is that there was no reason for the ceremony to be held in a church. We have plenty of other community buildings that are much more appropriate for a graduation or a pinning ceremony. Right behind the stage was the baptismal... the guests sat in pews... there were crosses and religious symbols all over the place. How can you possibly think that that is appropriate? You can't force your views onto others. Just because having a ceremony in a church wouldn't bother you, that doesn't mean it won't bother someone else.

This is not really what I was looking for. OK there are religious symbols there. Why should that bother you if you are a non-believer? If you don't believe in them then they should hold no significance. I don't let it bother me every time I see a dradle(sp) or cross of David, they are someone elses belief's and therefore not relevant to me. I am not concerned I am greeted with Blessed Be. I accept it in the spirit in which it is offered, again someone elses belief system. I really wonder why the symbols would bother someone who is confident in their belief system?

I won't have to visit the chapel, and I won't be forced to attend staff meetings there. As a matter of fact, I doubt I'll even walk by it on a monthly basis.

That's a good point--holding staff meetings in the chapel would be very unappropriate, unless, of course, it's a religious hospital. Even then I think that would be pushing it. Why would a state CC have a pinning in a church?

I really wonder why the symbols would bother someone who is confident in their belief system?

The point is that it's inappropriate. It's not a religious school. The OP's school has ample facilities. There's NO REASON to have it in a church.

If other students want to visit the church for a ceremony on their own, fine, but the OP attends a STATE school. I think the reason would be pretty clear. Separate church and state. Don't make people go to a church for their pinning! You may not be offended if your school held a ceremony in a temple, church, etc., but you can't assume that everyone feels that way. It's not fair to others.

I don't know about walking by it in MY facility it is right by the main entrance and everyone that enters that way walks past it daily.

As for trying to change anyone's belief's I haven't, I simply asked for a clarification about what is so threatening about a public building where Church is held?

At the hospital here, the chapel is down a relatively empty hallway. I'm not sure what else is even down that same hall.

Okay, if buildings and religious symbols shouldn't threaten anyone, why don't we take a group of Christians and expect them to hold a ceremony in a dark room with inverted pentagrams, baphomets, upside-down crosses, and goat heads all over the place? Keep in mind, this is just a public building where satanic rituals are held.

and you were answered, CCU NRS! H ave a great day, and I hope the OP's pinning is what her class wants it to be; it's their moment, not anyone elses'!

Well it should be for all of them. If they are all against it being in a Church they should rally for a change, my poinit was that a church is just a building. Why do people that don't believe in God or Religion feel threatened by a Church or religous symbols or anything at all?

I guess what I am saying is I am confident in my belief's and feel that everyone may worship or not who ever or whatever they feel they want to but I am not threatened by anyone elses religion or their sybolism or their practices. So Why are non-believers so threatened by the symbols we Believer's revere?

It is actually quite an interesting phenomenon. Think about it if you are non-religious or do not beleive in God then you are obviously not afraid to be a non-believer or announce that you don't believe in God(which to me would be the very thing that would brings God's wrath if that were something you feared), but the symbols that we use to worship scare or threaten or offend to the point that feelings are that they are subjected to our belief system just by being in the presence of it's symbols?

The point is that it's inappropriate. It's not a religious school. The OP's school has ample facilities. There's NO REASON to have it in a church.

If other students want to visit the church for a ceremony on their own, fine, but the OP attends a STATE school. I think the reason would be pretty clear. Separate church and state. Don't make people go to a church for their pinning! You may not be offended if your school held a ceremony in a temple, church, etc., but you can't assume that everyone feels that way. It's not fair to others.

Again I am not trying to tell anyone how to feel I am trying to undertsand what is so offensive or threatening?

Specializes in PICU, Nurse Educator, Clinical Research.
Please enlighten me. How is religion being forced on you just because something is held in a church? If it isn't a religous ceremony it isn't religous. A church is just a building. Many functions can be held there. As I mentioned many devout christians go to many ceremonies in many buildings and never make it out to be a way to break their religous beliefs.
I totally agree with your point- lots of other functions are held in churches- AA meetings, community events- that are open to people of all beliefs, and are not religious services.

I still contend, however, that your 'if x = y, and y = z, then x = z' argument about religious people attending ceremonies in other buildings is erroneous. If you- as a christian- were asked to attend your graduation in a mosque, with an invocation given by an imam, and the men and women were going to be asked to sit separately, and pray, and bow to mecca- would you? Personally, I think you would not. I've asked a lot of people, devout followers of many faiths, how they feel about this topic, and they all agree with me- even my closest friend at school, who happens to be a devout evangelical christian. she respects my position, and we have actual discussions- civil ones- about the topic.

Were they going to make you pray?
yes.

Was there going to be prayer?
yes.

Was there going to be a Preacher or minister?
yes.

The director of the program is some sort of official in his church, and various faculty members have, in the past, sung christian songs and/or read scripture.

The church is a congregation of people that come together to worship, a building is just a building. A building where a church meets is often considered a church but if you look into it you will find that NO building is really what contains God or religion, people house God.
Religion 101. I mentioned before that I was a religious studies minor at University, so I know this. But including the aforementioned elements *makes* the ceremony a reliious one.

Religion is a set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.
Indeed. And it is not legal, in the US, for a faculty member of a state-funded institution to take on the role of a spiritual leader in the context of a graduation observation.

I just want to add that it seems strange to me. If a person does not believe in God or organized religion then why would a House of worship threaten you?
I think you're being inflammatory, and making an assumption that isn't valid. No building *threatens* me. I have attended many religious ceremonies, held in all types of buildings- ornate chathedrals, converted warehouses, barns, hindu temples- and never once did I feel threatened. Whether or not I believe in god or organized religion isn't the point- in fact, I don't think I said whether I did or not. the point is that, in this country, our constitution specifically protects *both* the state AND the church by separating the two. Blurring that line, by having this event in a church, and filling the ceremony itself with prayer and deference to a *specific* faith, is where I think the problem lies.

It would seem to me that "Church" or house of worship would have no meaning at all if you had no belief? So I would really like to know what the issue is.

If I 'had no belief', then absolutely, the "church" would have no meaning at all. Again, you make an assumption without having all the data- that, if I don't agree with your belief system, I must have none at all. I think I've clearly articulated, through several posts, what my problem is. No building has ANY significance to me, based on the building alone. If this event were being held in a very large cardboard box, but contained the same faith-specific elements, my problem would still exist.

I hope I have, as you requested, explained thoroughly what the issue is.

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