Forced to come into work on day off

[Dingo8Who]

Hi,

A new scheduling policy is about to take affect and I wanted to check to see if its right/legal. So, in our ICU we are now going to be required to work a full 12 hour shift (over our 36) on one of our days off every 2 months. We will not know in advance what day this will be, and thus they are calling it an "on call day." Essentially we will be called out of the blue and forced to come to work, every 2 months.

How on earth is this acceptable, my days off of work are my days off?!

So my questions are...

How is this legal?

This was not mentioned in my job description, unless the famous "and other duties as assigned" applies.

[CrunchRN, ADN, RN]

They can call all they want. If you are not designated to be on call that day then they will not get an answer. I would just sign up for my day and other days off I wouldn't go near the phone!

[Asystole RN]

In the state of Arizona it is considered an Employee-Employer dispute as it is in most states.

Basically if you do not like the employer's rules then find another employer...or grin and bear it.

[island40]

I'm inclined to think that the facts of this policy got muddled in the translation from administration to employee. The way it is explained here will not work - just try getting a hold of me when I am scheduled off - and unless they are providing it I don't see how they can make me get a cell phone - Good grief, big brother taken to a whole new level.

[Blackcat99]

I remember an LTC I worked at in the 1980's. The DON called me at home and told me "I had to come in right now." I told her" No, I can't. I have been drinking wine all day. There's no way I can come in" She was hostile and told me it didn't matter and that it was "my responsiblity" to come into work right now." I was furious!!!!!:mad: I yelled at her and said "No, you are the DON. It is your responsibility not mine." I then slammed the phone down on her. After that, she was "super nice" to me.

[BabyLady, BSN, RN]

In the state of Arizona it is considered an Employee-Employer dispute as it is in most states.

Basically if you do not like the employer's rules then find another employer...or grin and bear it.

Being in a at-work state doesn't give employers total and free reign.

You have to look at what this employee, in detail, is being asked to do:

She is being asked to be on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, the employer wants her to never be free to go out of town, to go to dinner, to go to a movie, to go to a school program with her kids and to stand by a method of communication (ie. phone) so she can come in on damand or lose her job.

That is why so many nurses are posting that she must have misunderstood the policy. Most all hospitals have some type of call system, but generally you know which days you are on call.

Any of us, can get called on our days off and be asked to come in, but they cannot require you to drop everything and come in if you are not scheduled. You could have dinner on the stove, be on your way to a doctor's appointment, cannot get a baby-sitter that fast, have a sick child/or parent you are taking care of...the list is long.

That is where at-will crosses over to a termination an employer can get sued over.

Wow, wouldn't every employer in the country do that....if they could.

[whodatnurse]

Being in a at-work state doesn't give employers total and free reign.

You have to look at what this employee, in detail, is being asked to do:

She is being asked to be on call 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, the employer wants her to never be free to go out of town, to go to dinner, to go to a movie, to go to a school program with her kids and to stand by a method of communication (ie. phone) so she can come in on damand or lose her job.

That is why so many nurses are posting that she must have misunderstood the policy. Most all hospitals have some type of call system, but generally you know which days you are on call.

Any of us, can get called on our days off and be asked to come in, but they cannot require you to drop everything and come in if you are not scheduled. You could have dinner on the stove, be on your way to a doctor's appointment, cannot get a baby-sitter that fast, have a sick child/or parent you are taking care of...the list is long.

That is where at-will crosses over to a termination an employer can get sued over.

Wow, wouldn't every employer in the country do that....if they could.

A lot of them already have done exactly this for at least the past 20 years in the corporate setting. Be wary. Now that management has the upper hand in terms of the supply and demand of personnel, it wouldn't at all surprise me if they were to try to implement this. Sounds like they already do it the other way - when census is low and they don't want you there, then they send you home and you don't get paid. So now when they want you there, well...

The stuff about dinner, appointments, etc. reminded me of when I was a civilian contractor to a branch of the military. To ALL that stuff they would have replied, "if we had wanted you to eat we would have given you food...and if we had wanted you to have a child or parent we would have issued you one." Seriously.

[StarryEyed, RN]

Also, we'll be staffing another department (cvicu) instead of our own (msicu).

Can't provide any explanation other than no one wants to work in our cvicu, there have been two ft positions posted for months.

Judging by all the new grads trying to get a job, I can bet that they've got tons of ppl wanting that job. The hospital just does not want to hire more ppl or new grads and they would rather strain the current employees to save the money. Also even though the jobs are posted as an opening, they probably aren't interviewing anyone for the before mentioned reason. Of course they have to "appear" as though they are trying to correct the staffing issue.

[BabyLady, BSN, RN]

A lot of them already have done exactly this for at least the past 20 years in the corporate setting. Be wary. Now that management has the upper hand in terms of the supply and demand of personnel, it wouldn't at all surprise me if they were to try to implement this. Sounds like they already do it the other way - when census is low and they don't want you there, then they send you home and you don't get paid. So now when they want you there, well...

The stuff about dinner, appointments, etc. reminded me of when I was a civilian contractor to a branch of the military. To ALL that stuff they would have replied, "if we had wanted you to eat we would have given you food...and if we had wanted you to have a child or parent we would have issued you one." Seriously.

I worked for 20 years in a corporate setting before I got into nursing, and trust me, I have learned that hospitals push the envelope much further than most any other employer.

This is what they count on:

1. That you won't file for unemployment..., how many times have we seen on Allnurses the advice to quit when someone thinks they will get fired? Whenever someone files for unemployment and receives it, it makes the employers unemployment insurance rate go up. It also creates a record and a pattern with the unemployment office and they do keep a close watch on who is terminating who and for what.

If somene is ever fired, NEVER sign anything...they cannot require you to and they don't need you to sign anything no matter what they tell you...9 times out of 10, you are signing a document waiving your right to unemployment and waiving your right to sue...and they know the shock of the termination, you won't read it.

2. That you won't sue. Yes, it's expensive and a pain....but they can pretty much count on the fact that even if they fire you unjustly, that you won't do anything about it.

People bash unions. I happen to be pro-union. Here is the catch with unions: They are only as strong as their members...if someone belongs to a union and never goes to meetings and tunes out everything that is going on, then want to run to their rep and get all concerned the minute someething happens to them...seriously, they are not going to do much to help you.

As for people that work in non-union places...this is why it is careful to pick your battles.

You cannot fire someone for not coming into work if they were not scheduled to work and they were not on call.

The US Department of Labor would say to the employer, either they are working, or they are off, and if they are working, you have to pay them.

That is the difference. You cannot legally (and look this up on their website), obligate someone to come into work if it is not their day to come in and they did not have an advance notice.