Ethics Violation-Would you remain silent or challenge the system? - page 10

Today I was labeled a "whistleblower and tattletail because I, along with numerous other students, witnessed a table of individuals cheating on an exam in our Anatomy and Physiology class which is a... Read More

  1. by   hogan4736
    It's a common behavior studied by sociologists for years...

    Group contagion and diffusion of responsibility...

    I watched a guy beat his girlfriend once, years ago...I did nothing...I was afraid he might pull out a gun...there were others there as well. I likely figured someone else would step in (diffusion of responsibility)
  2. by   Miss Chybil RN
    Quote from hogan4736
    It's a common behavior studied by sociologists for years...

    Group contagion and diffusion of responsibility...

    I watched a guy beat his girlfriend once, years ago...I did nothing...I was afraid he might pull out a gun...there were others there as well. I likely figured someone else would step in (diffusion of responsibility)
    Being an abused spouse myself, way back in the day, I told myself I would always help anyone I saw being abused. I stepped in one time to help out a woman at a strip mall who was being beaten by her biker boyfriend. Not only did her boyfriend threaten me to beat me, but so did the woman! Needless to say, I was out of there fast.

    Even police officers are afraid of domestic violence situations. I will never step in again, but I will call the police. At least, they're trained to try and defend themselves in those types of situations.
  3. by   reebok
    Quote from kenny b
    If you'll permit me Reebok, I think I have something you haven't heard here, which might even make it worth your while to add one more post. If you don't post, I'll have to assume that I have a valid point (because I strongly suspect that it'll be very difficult for you to avoid reading my addition to the thread).

    I agree with your assertion that cheating on one prereq test does not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the cheater would be a bad nurse. They could "come to Jesus" so to speak at some point and be better for it. I know that some trucking companies would rather have a driver with one old ticket than a driver with no tickets.

    I also understand your point about how reporting the cheater could be a waste of time and that they should be weeded out in the future.

    However, I have a thesis that I'd challenge you to dismantel.

    There are lots of people competing for the program.
    Question: Who should get in to the last available slots? The cheaters or the students who made the grade without cheating? Sure it's possible that the cheaters would make better nurses, but it's also possible that those who made the grade without cheating would make better nurses.

    So if we don't consider who would make a better nurse, we could look at who would be more likely to survive the program. If the cheaters beat the students who earned good grades (but not as good as those of the cheaters), then aren't they bumping more deserving candidates from the program (or at the very least, delaying them)?

    You say that the nursin program will weed these folks out, but perhaps not before they blow it for someone else who is more likely to succeed. On the strength of this reality, I submit that it is worthwhile to turn the cheaters in.

    You, yourself said that cheating should not be condoned no matter what the circumstances.
    You also said that nursing school would weed out the cheaters.

    It is on the strength of these two statements that I make my case.

    (also, I was wondering if you have considered a career as a trial defense attorney, or perhaps a divorce lawyer)?
    I meant to put that nursing school would weed out Habitual cheaters.
    Now that you've changed the whole argument around I am going to have to think harder. Let's see, we're not dealing with ethics but survival of the program. I guess I can just pick my face up off the floor or get my foot out of my mouth. This takes me back to my 1rst post. What was her motive for reporting the cheaters? She was jealous and tried to hide that emotion by using ethics as an excuse to seem chilvary-like.

    Bare with me b/c I think differently. This argument may never hold up in the court of law but this is what I believe.

    Who should get into the last available slots?
    atheist: Who ever is lucky enough to get chosen?
    Christian: (that's me) Whom ever has God's favor>

    This is how I see things? If you are doing your part God will acknowledge that and therefore you have nothing to worry about. If you have a close relationship w/ God &studied but still didn't get in. It's for your good. That means it wasn't your time, something bad could have happened, God has something else planned for your life,etc.
  4. by   reebok
    Psalm 37:
    Fret not thyself b/c of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. (For the tattle-teller)
    For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. (hopefully the habitual cheaters)
    Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. ( acceptance into nursing school)

    If you are truly a child of God you have nothing to worry about.

    If I was one of the judges of admission I would flip a coin to determine who should fill the last slots. Why b/c when I was in nursing school most of the peers I knew cheated on at least ONE PRE REQ. test. Somehow they've managed to survive the program b/c we are all alumni class of "xx. Remember you put ethics aside.

    As for the unlucky atheist, life is unfair.

    If you dont understand what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.
  5. by   reebok
    Quote from eltrip
    Okay, Reebok, I've been reading through this thread. Give me a break, man! Paragraphs 2 & 3 are hogwash. I was one of the many nurses on this BB who grew up abused and impoverished. I, too spent time in foster homes. I was misguided by many, moving from state to state over the years. Bottom line, though, I made a choice. I saw how the "every man for himself" philosophy didn't work. I chose to behave ethically. I chose to educate myself. I continue to choose to behave ethically. And yes, I do my report my mistakes - it's a matter of patient safety! I'd rather get "called on the carpet" about a problem I'd caused rather than lose my license for not looking out for my patients & causing one to die.

    A student who cheats in prerequisite classes will frequently fail out of the nursing program. This amounts to a waste of time, energy & money. If this person does make it through the program, he/she is at greater risk for failing their board exam, another waster of time, energy & money. When this person passes the board exam, you will see this person exit nursing quickly because of the difficulty of the work and/or incompetence.

    I turned in a fellow student while in nursing school. He copied the work our group had created (his own group had kicked him out). As a group, we went to the faculty member (who was also head of the program). He had the attitude that he'd had a hard life & we should help him out. We suggested the bootstrap method. He was allowed to continue, graduate & pass the boards. He didn't stay in nursing long & was a poor nurse until he left the field.

    And that's why we don't tolerate cheaters.
    A student who cheats in prereq classes will frequently fail out of the nursing program. Did you mean a student who frequently cheats in prereq classes will fail out of the nursing program. Or did you mean a student who cheats in prereq. classes will flunk out of nursing school shortly after the student's acceptance?

    I am glad to see that inspite of your trials/tribulations youve managed to keep yourself in the right direction. This isn't the Tonys or Oscars so I guess your reward is in heaven.
    This amounts to time,a waste of energy and money. Whose time, energy, and money is it wasting? Certainly not yours. Cheating increases their odds of failing the board exams. Does it increase your odds of failing the exam as well. No! So why are you worried about it?
    Ge
  6. by   kukukajoo
    Reebok- Religion does not even come into play when applying to colleges!! I have never ever been asked what religion I am and frankly it does not matter.

    Also once again you have changed the argument and now tried to spin doctor it. I would hate to be in your class with a bunch of cheaters- that is sad that you all had to resort to that. A real accomplishment- something to tell your grandchildren for sure!

    As far as Psalms- not everybody reads the bible and not everybody believes in it. Please, please don't go so low as to play the religion card and then act like we all are stupid with your you can ask me line....
  7. by   kukukajoo
    Reebok- you are missing the point- why should someone who got a better grade by cheating than someone who didn't get the last slot in a Nursing program? The non-cheater earned it on his/her volition but the cheater does not even deserve to be there!

    Hello!
  8. by   gauge14iv
    <click> unsub - its just gotten too far fetched for words.
  9. by   ann945n
    You need to talk to your Dean asap and also talk to campus security. These students can not follow you around yelling at you, you have a right to saftey on campus and to not have to deal with this. You did the right thing just work your way up the chain!
  10. by   ann945n
    Quote from reebok
    Psalm 37:
    Fret not thyself b/c of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity. (For the tattle-teller)
    For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. (hopefully the habitual cheaters)
    Delight thyself also in the Lord; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart. ( acceptance into nursing school)

    If you are truly a child of God you have nothing to worry about.

    If I was one of the judges of admission I would flip a coin to determine who should fill the last slots. Why b/c when I was in nursing school most of the peers I knew cheated on at least ONE PRE REQ. test. Somehow they've managed to survive the program b/c we are all alumni class of "xx. Remember you put ethics aside.

    As for the unlucky atheist, life is unfair.

    If you dont understand what I'm saying feel free to ask questions.
    huh? what does atheist have to do with it?
  11. by   reebok
    Quote from kukukajoo
    Reebok- you are missing the point- why should someone who got a better grade by cheating than someone who didn't get the last slot in a Nursing program? The non-cheater earned it on his/her volition but the cheater does not even deserve to be there!

    Hello!
    He didn't 100% go off who deserved to be accepted in the program. He said who would survive the program and who should be chosen to fill the last slots. He denied ethics as well. He also gave an example of probability by saying there are some cheaters who would be worst nurses there would be some cheaters that would be better nurses. 1rst of all some cheaters had to survive the program and pass the boards in order to even be called nurse in the 1rst place. That's why I said I would flip a coin.

    Obviously you are missing the pt. Why should the mega rich get a tax brake, and the poor have to pay taxes. Why should people be harassed at airports b/c of the actions of a few terrorists. Why should I be stopped frequently while driving just b/c I look younger than 17 even though I earned my drivers license. I'm trying to come up with better analogies but I can't right now. But I'm sure you can. I dont want to underestimate your intelligence.
  12. by   reebok
    Quote from kukukajoo
    Reebok- Religion does not even come into play when applying to colleges!! I have never ever been asked what religion I am and frankly it does not matter.

    Also once again you have changed the argument and now tried to spin doctor it. I would hate to be in your class with a bunch of cheaters- that is sad that you all had to resort to that. A real accomplishment- something to tell your grandchildren for sure!

    As far as Psalms- not everybody reads the bible and not everybody believes in it. Please, please don't go so low as to play the religion card and then act like we all are stupid with your you can ask me line....
    He changed the argument in a way in which it was impossible to win. I changed it in such a way that if he was a christian it would be hard to argue with much I said, but I did say that the argument would never stand in the court of law. (in that area you can also plug in college admission criteria)He used my own premises against me. I used his choice of words against him. He didn't say who deserved to be in the program. He said who would survive the program. Who should be chosen?

    So who deserves to get in? Is it the smart person who earned his grade or the person smart enough to cheat at the right time?
    And the answer is....(DRUM ROLL)
    The person who is smart enough to earn his grade and wise enough to know when to choose his/her battles. This battle was not hers especially when the professor didn't care,esp when its only one pre req testt, esp. when there's no direct potential for patient harm and no potential for negative reputation for school. The battle it's not yours it's the Lord's.
  13. by   reebok
    Quote from ann945n
    huh? what does atheist have to do with it?
    Who should get in?
    Atheist: Who ever is luck enough?
    CHristian: Whom ever has God's favor?

    So if your not a christian, you may be atheist. If your not lucky you wont get in. So therefore the denied applicant may be an unlucky atheist. Life is not fair. I cant really describe it. Just read the post I posted before that one.

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