The 'De-Skilling' Of Nursing - page 8

What should be our greatest concern for the future of nursing? We must fear the day if (or when) registered nurses (RNs) and licensed practical nurses (LPNs) will be less needed in healthcare due to systematic de-skilling of the... Read More

  1. 4
    Quote from Asystole RN
    CNA
    Oh come on, now you're just being silly. The job title of a CNA explicitly states that they are an assistant to a nurse. The job title of a RN and a LPN explicitly states that they are ARE nurses. This isn't an "opinion" anyone who says otherwise is just factually wrong.
    mc3, Szasz_is_Right, Fiona59, and 1 other like this.

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  2. 2
    Quote from Asystole RN
    CNA

    There have been nursing assistants going back decades and they have never been considered professional nurses. Part of the healthcare/nursing team yes, but not nurses.

    Certified Nursing Assistants and all the hype that seems to come from using those initials only came about when the federal government demanded some sort of central state registry and IIRC minimum standards for assistants to work in certain facilities receiving Medicare or Medicaid funding.

    Prior to all this "CNA" business nursing assistants/orderlies and so forth may have stated such when queried as to their employment, but it wasn't elevated to the point of being a professional title. Of course one does not know everything and cannot speak for all of the USA but usually the only time you saw "NA" after a name was in charting and sometimes depending upon the facility not even then.
    JessiekRN and Szasz_is_Right like this.
  3. 0
    Quote from DoGoodThenGo
    It of course varies by state, but in NY for instance nursing assistants are not regulated and or issued a license by the same body that does so for professional nurses. CNAs are just that, they have been issued a certificate that indicates the fullfilling of certain educational and other requirements, but they do not have a professional license.

    As for using the term "nurse", again it would vary by state but in NY any graduate of an accredited program is allowed to call themselves a "nurse" (graduate) and once properly licensed a RN or LPN.
    They are regulated and issued a "certificate" here in Arizona by the Board of Nursing.

    LPNs generally are not considered "professionally licensed" either, they are licensed but not professionally. This is why the term Registered Professional Nurse is coming into play, to differentiate it from Licensed Practical Nurse. I know there are some states that officially recognize the professional title, I though NY was one of them?

    Honestly I do not care about an all inclusive nursing organization because ANA already exists. I just do not understand the rationale for wanting to join RNs with LPNs while excluding CNAs.
  4. 0
    As for the whole RN and LPN competing for the same job thing, this does happen. But there are far more RNs taking former LPN positions than the other way around. The tight job market has resulted in many RNs pushing a med cart in LTC. They are doing LPN level work for LPN level pay. When was the last time you heard of a LPN pushing a RN out of a hospital job?
  5. 2
    Welcome to the new Nursing. We had let for profit and nursing organizations devalue nursing for years. While RT and PT can bill separately, we continue to be listed under bed and board. Yet, we have to carry malpractice insurance because we are professionals. We have let the ANA make decisions for us, which has done more harm than good for nurses across the board.

    Computerized charting has taken us away from the bedside, customer service has us acting like waitress instead of professionals and administrators think that we are a dime a dozen. Yes you can replaces us but you can't replace our experience.

    I have worked all over this country. I have worked in the NE, out west and in the south. I have worked Union and Non Union and For Profit and Non Profit. There is a huge difference across the board. The one thing that does stay the same, is that unless nurse come together under one banner, we will fall by the wayside.

    We need to come together, LPN, LVN, RN, BSN and so forth. If we don't stand together, then we have on one to blame but ourselves.
    tnmarie and SHGR like this.
  6. 4
    The ANA does nothing for the bedside nurse. It is a political organization that is worthless.
    NurseSDP, OCNRN63, Szasz_is_Right, and 1 other like this.
  7. 0
    Quote from tothepointeLVN
    Well just because I want it doesn't mean all the other LPN/LVN want it too. Though to be honest getting out of dissatisfaction with the LVN role is a lot easier for us. Just become an RN. So in some ways we don't find our heads banging on the wall so much or if we do we are reassured of a path out of it if we want.

    So if adding additional education and clinical hours equals an upgrade in license for a LVN/LPN moving up shouldn't a RN moving from ADN to BSN be offered the same reward in addition to a pretty thing to hang on the wall? Don't RT's have a two tiered system with RCP and RRT ?

    And should RN's and LVN's be competing for the same jobs if we have two different SOP. Don't you think that working together would clarify that issue. Or is it because you as an RN don't have a desire to play nice and would prefer that skills be given to UAP rather than to an LVN because you feel we are competing somehow.
    RTs do have a two tier system but from what I understand the RTs are actively moving to manditory RRTs. I have honestly not looked into it but I hear the RTs at work talking about it.

    When I moved from an ASN RN to a BSN RN I did get a pretty thing to hang on the wall, in fact I am looking at it now.

    Honestly I do not care if RNs and LPNs are joined together, in fact I think they should be allowed into ANA, I think ANA would be a good influence. I also believe that CNAs should also be allowed. CNAs are as much a vital part of the nursing team and LPNs are IMHO.

    On the overall topic I do not agree that nursing skills are being dumbed down or taken away, I think that nursing is specializing and each nurse is becoming an expert in a single area to the detriment of general nursing skills. Look at how far nursing has come in the world of vascular access, I work with a nurse that remembers when only physicians inserted IVs.
  8. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    Honestly I do not care about an all inclusive nursing organization because ANA already exists. I just do not understand the rationale for wanting to join RNs with LPNs while excluding CNAs.
    The ANA is NOT all inclusive. That's the point. They should call themselves the ARNA or something. Their current title for their organization is disingenuous and misleading. Of course, it's a free country and they could call themselves the Bolivian Clown League if they wanted to. And CNAs can't join a nurses association because they are not nurses. Now, if it was the American Healthcare Worker's association or something.....
  9. 0
    Quote from Asystole RN
    They are regulated and issued a "certificate" here in Arizona by the Board of Nursing.

    LPNs generally are not considered "professionally licensed" either, they are licensed but not professionally. This is why the term Registered Professional Nurse is coming into play, to differentiate it from Licensed Practical Nurse. I know there are some states that officially recognize the professional title, I though NY was one of them?

    Honestly I do not care about an all inclusive nursing organization because ANA already exists. I just do not understand the rationale for wanting to join RNs with LPNs while excluding CNAs.
    You're correct, had to go look it up. In NYS it tis "Registered Professional Nurse". T'was the fact both are under the NYS's Office of the Professions that threw me. Apologies for giving out incorrect information.
  10. 0
    Quote from tothepointeLVN
    Meh only by RN's who seem to have a misconception that extra year of school dramatically changes the way a nurse practices. Face it RN's feel threatened on all sides and instead of working collaboratively they lash out or make grandiose statements
    Some here actually think that only having a single year be the difference is far too little. Look at all the four year degree entry level talk.

    Dislike it if you want but in reality there is a big rift. How many MAs have you encountered that call themselves a nurse? Most of the MAs I encounter introduce themselves as a nurse.

    Who cares honestly? To me the term "nurse" is a vague and often misused title that has lost nearly all of its prestige. I do not care if MAs, CNAs, or LPNs use the term. I identify myself as a registered nurse and I have never suffered a mistake in professional identity.


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